to think that the formula companies are succeeding with their campaign to promote formula to be as good as breast milk...

[MissyKLo]

...when it isn't?

this article rang true in so many ways

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2010/10/how-breast-is-best-came-to-be.html

Breast milk is of course, full of amazing antibodies and nourishment etc that formula can never replicate - but the formula companies are winning in their campaign to make people believe that formula is as good as breast milk aren't they? A lot of people don't see bf as a big deal and that babies are 'perfectly fine' on formula. But what about all the benefits of breast milk and the fact that so many babies don't ever get these?

Breast milk cannot be beaten on so many levels so why are the formula companies allowed to get away with this?!!!!!!

Precisely bubbly.

A few studies have been done on this. Measurements show that by 6 weeks your average FF is taking in more energy than your average BF baby with differences in consumption even at 1 day old. BF babies typically feed more slowly too (similar to the idea of eating a meal slowly to recognise when you are full).

Also, young babies (6 weeks old) will naturally regulate their own appetite if allowed - a FF baby will drink less of an energy rich formula than one with less energy in it. However this disappears later on.

Work has also shown that when given expressed milk, BF whose mother has higher fat content in their milk will drink less of a feed than those who have lower amounts. Also FF are more likely to finish a bottle of formula but the BF baby drinks different amounts at different times. If you manipulate how often the baby has a bottle of expressed milk they will naturally drink less for shorter intervals. Not as likely for FF.

This of course is all on averages - and how the mother feeds the baby will of course play a role. It is unlikely to make little difference if you then feed the baby a fry up for every meal from then on it. But it gives them an advantage.

Why are people unable to say "yes, I know that species specific milk is the optimum nutrition for an infant but I still chose/had to formula feed and I am happy with that."?

MilaMae wanted links - she kept saying links links links. sorry this upsets you so much nancy

It makes sense to me peppa :) but it's pretty clear that some other posters just don't get it....

Ruby I fail to see what that ridiculous link has to do with anything.

Bubbly still not seeing concrete evidence of ff causing obesity,sorry.

who said that it did milamae? No one has said that.

FF may increase the baby's risk of, for example becoming obese. It doesn't mean they will become obese. So many other factors come into play, and I agree that bf isn't the be all and end all.

However you ask why people "obsess" over it. I think it is because the lack of support, and the normalisation of ff means that mothers who want to bf often are unable to, for various reasons. Coupled with the knowledge of the risks of ff (and I say risks rather than benefits of bf because bf is the physiological norm as has been explained in this thread), people feel that it is an important issue, partly because so many people don't actually have free choice.

Ok rollit - so do you want to produce a study that shows that ff babies are NOT at increased risk of those illnesses? It might take you a while... :)

I really don't understand how "the other side" lol, complain that there is no evidence to back up the prp-bf'ers points, and then as soon as someone does, she is told to off???!!!

With regard to those further up the post that said that babies FF in the UK were "fine", think of it this way, in 2005 WHO stated that it bfing for just three months could save the NHS 50MILLION A YEAR! Could come in kind of handy, now they're making cuts all over the place, dontcha think? That was 6 years ago, i have no idea how much more it would be now, considering infaltion etc.

WHO also stated, in the same year, that if women bfed (i think it was for 3 months again, but i don't have the book in front of me i am afraid) that 400 lives would be saved every year to breast cancer....

Not sure how you can say those figures mean that ff vs bf in the uk is neither here nor there.

(i feel i now have to put the ridiculous disclaimer in, before someone jumps on me, no of course ffing doesn't mean you WILL get cancer, and BFing doesn't mean you won't..... BUT it does lower the risk, and when looking at populations, not individuals, it does make a difference)

But in relation to the OP, i think the promotion of FF companies is awful. As pps have said it is all about the ££, they have a business to run, but how they sleep at night i do not know....

And i wish the government would grow some balls and actually enshrine the WHO international code of marketing in law and give it some teeth.

www.breastfeedingmums.com/dr_jack_newman_how_breastmilk_protects_newborns.htm

Back to gastro bugs - here's a link explaining how the bm protects a newborn's gut - showing that it isn't all to do with incorrectly made up formula.

And before anyone tells me to f off - I know this has nothing to do with obesity. Just thought some of the earlier posters may find it interesting :)

banana, they sleep at night because it's not actually poison! How do chip shop employees sleep at night knowing they're feeding people high fat food which will contribute to their obesity? Ok, silly analogy, but they're just making money to live on, just like the rest of us.
Basically, sod the formula companies. There are already controls in place to stop widespread advertising, and lets face it, you can't ban them from producing it. Save your breath for making sure the right support is out there for those that want to bf but find it difficult.

"and I agree that bf isn't the be all and end all"

are you making this point because someone here has stated - incorrectly - that breastfeeding is the only factor or the most important factor when it comes to obesity, illness etc?

Because I haven't seen any posts saying or implying this.

As to why people 'obsess' over this - well as far as I'm concerned it involves all the things that really trigger my concern and interest, the main one being the unethical behaviour of big business at the expense of the most vulnerable people in society. In other words, for me this is about power and equality and money, as well as being an intensely personal issue.

For my part, finding out about the unethical behaviour of formula companies in relation to their marketing practices in developing countries left me shocked and disgusted. And it's ironic that people don't acknowledge the fact that the babies least likely to get optimal nutrition as infants in the UK come from the most disadvantaged backgounds. It saddens me that these children lose out right from the start, despite the fact that this is the one time in their lives that their parents have the opportunity by breastfeeding, to feed their children - for nothing - on a perfect diet, something that becomes much more of a challenge for people on the lowest incomes after weaning.

I'm not pointing the finger at people who don't breastfeed. I think it's perfectly understandable that people will do what they find culturally acceptable and familiar, and in this country that happens to be bottlefeeding, particularly for working class and young mums. We all make our parenting decisions in the context of the culture we grow up in - that's just the way it is. But it angers me the powerful role that formula companies have had over the past five decades in shaping people's knowledge and understanding of infant feeding.

ellangirl - in the third world they promote formula, and they often don't have the means to sterilise a bottle/make it up properly. This means that their babies are very likely to get sick and die if they use formula. Free samples are handed out, and even if this is all that is used it impacts on a woman's milk supply. If you are interested have a read of "the politics of breastfeeding".

'Save your breath for making sure the right support is out there for those that want to bf but find it difficult.'

Well said. But I think 99% of people who are supportive of breastfeeding do feel this way - it has just been clouded

I have no qualms admitting bm is optimum nutrition (and I did bf my DD for 13 months so of course I feel that way) I however object to the people who make 'statements' and judgements such as 'so many women ff purely because its easier for them/everyone SHOULD try to bf/its SAD when babies miss out on breastfeeding' because at the end of that day thats just applying your own judgement to people which is NOT helping anyone in any way shape or form.

"There are already controls in place to stop widespread advertising"

The controls are meaningless and the companies constantly flout them.

Formula brands have a VERY high profile in our culture. You only have to open a pregnancy magazine to see that it's advertising is dominated by ads for bottles and baby milk.

Cleofartra - not sure if you are referring to my post but I think we're on the same side

When I made the comment that you have quoted, I was agreeing with whoever said (peppapig?) that it isn't the only factor affecting obesity. As in, if you were bf you are magically protected from everything. I don't think anyone has said this, but the people who are arguing against you and the OP are implying that you think bf is the be all and end all, which is obviously a ridiculous implication.

The ones that have been mentioned throughout this thread rollit - have you been reading it or did you just decide to jump in for a bit of a scuffle? You accused me of lying about bf providing protection against illness so prove that I am :)

What cleo said!!

And Ellangirl, I'm sorry but I stand by my point. Those in charge of Nestle et al, they are responisble for the deaths of millions of babies, mainly abroad but also at home. No i do not know how they sleep at night.

'so many women ff purely because its easier for them'

But this is true. It's also true that many women breastfeed because it's easier for them. What is the problem with saying something so blindingly obvious?

"everyone SHOULD try to bf"

I'm with you on this one.

"It's SAD when babies miss out on breastfeeding"

Isn't this a valid opinion? If you value breastfeeding and think it's important for babies you are going to think it's sad when babies aren't breastfed. OK - I wouldn't openly state any of the above opinions except in the context of an internet debate about the subject, but that's another issue to do with communication and sensitivity.

www.llli.org/docs/cbi/outcomes_of_breastfeeding_february_2010.pdf

And this was for those questioning the effects of bf vs ff further up the thread. The length of the list astounds me

Whoops - sorry Cat!

You're right. It's a 'straw man' argument and it is used all the time when people are discussing this issue. It's very annoying!

cat do they really? I had no idea. How awful. Cleo, just out of interest, does the government have plans to reduce the advertising of formula do you know?
I just can't help feeling that the ff culture is truly ingrained in our society, so it all needs to be viewed from the normalising breastfeeding point of view, rather than the dangers/disadvantages/abnormality of ff, and attacking the companies. It's so hard for pro bf 'campaigners' (for want of a better word) to seem supportive and positive, rather than sanctimonious unfortunately. People will always be very defensive of their feeding choices, and about their parenting in general!