to think that the formula companies are succeeding with their campaign to promote formula to be as good as breast milk...

[MissyKLo]

...when it isn't?

this article rang true in so many ways

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2010/10/how-breast-is-best-came-to-be.html

Breast milk is of course, full of amazing antibodies and nourishment etc that formula can never replicate - but the formula companies are winning in their campaign to make people believe that formula is as good as breast milk aren't they? A lot of people don't see bf as a big deal and that babies are 'perfectly fine' on formula. But what about all the benefits of breast milk and the fact that so many babies don't ever get these?

Breast milk cannot be beaten on so many levels so why are the formula companies allowed to get away with this?!!!!!!

As I understood it, the OP was essentially about propaganda. Pro-breastfeeding campaigns also need to be understood as being propaganda - information is presented in such a way as to support the point of view of whoever runs the campaign. Scientific 'facts' are quoted and whilst these facts are perfectly true, often campaigners do not go into detail about the reality and context of the statistics used.

For example, as I'm sure will have been mentioned by another poster (I haven't read the whole thread), FF babies are generally highlighted as being at a much greater risk of gastroenteritis BUT this 'fact' is based on a worldwide study and makes no accommodation for the cleanliness of water in different countries and does not account for the obsessive care some parents will take to sterilise bottles and other equipment.

As another poster has said, FF does not increase the risk of many things, but rather BF reduces the risk. The selective presentation of information to imply anything else is propaganda which is dangerous in all its forms.

Having not fed at all, my baby was hospitalised with dehydration at 6 days old and I was offered the choice between bottle feeding and an IV drip. The midwife told me when, after 5 more days of intensive support from the breastfeeding councillor on the postnatal ward, my baby still did not latch, that without medical intervention and the availability of formula (say 100 years ago) he would have died.

The fact that, knowing this, I still feel horrendously guilty 18 months on perhaps shows the effect of the pro-breastfeeding propaganda. Is this a good effect?

Here you go MilaMae

you might be particularly interested in this publication

I doubt that any probrearfeeders would want you to feel guilty. In cases such as your of course formula is a godsend and noone is saying it should not be available

But what I see all the time is people who stop as it is hard work, they want the convenience of bottles etc and YES this is their choice but o personally think that if women can bf, they should as it is the beat choice for a baby and I don't say this to make anyone feel bad but I say it because it is true

haven't got time to go through the entire thing now - but here is one report that goes into the long term effects of breastfeeding \link{http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2007/9789241595230_eng.pdf\here}

thanks baroque

I wish i had been bf! booooooo!

\link{http://search.who.int/search?q=long+term+benefits+of+breastfeeding&ie=utf8&site=default_collection&client=_en&proxystylesheet=_en&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf8\this will hopefully take you to the search results for} long term effects of breast feeding - there's about 2000 results that come up in the search........and I really cba to search through them all to find the ones that are specifically about it.

but facts are facts rolli! what is wrong with stating facts?

why are probreastfeeders not 'allowed' to state facts anymore!? it is not done to offend or make people feel guilty but if a fact is a fact it is a fact!!!!!!!!!!

Just some points - If I was to ask the question 'Which formula is closest to breastmilk?' what would you say and why would you say it?

Also if you need to use formula would you prefer to know all there is about what is in the formula you are using? There are no comparative studies (can just see that happening) between brands and the manufacturers like to make claims about certain added ingredients in order to increase their market share. They have also shown an unwillingness/unhurried response in informing people about the safer way of making up formula.

This would worry me in choosing which brand - especially if I wanted to use 'the best' and it was driven by feeling guilty for not breastfeeding.

I got lucky - my mum argued with the MW MissKLo (not sure where my IQ points went though )........maybe the MW knicked 'em because she was peeved that my mum refused to give me a bottle

What people are failing to mention is the benefit of bf to the MOTHER. Nutritionally formulas are beginning to come closer to breastmilk, but the health of the baby isn't the only thing involved. Breastfeeding has health benefits for the mother as well that formula companies would like you to ignore (because they can't do anything for the mother) and I think more women need to take THOSE benefits into account when they are making the decision of bf or ff. Failing to look into the benefits to mom with regards to bf when making the decision is not making an informed decision.

I know that some women (for one reason or another) CAN'T breastfeed (my sister was formula fed due to a complication affecting the quality of my mother's milk resulting from a minute piece of placenta left attached to her uterine wall). As such, I don't think that any ff mom should be castigated for her choice, I just think she should look at all the angles and make an informed decision. I think the reason this turns into such a heated arguement is because bf mothers are ALSO the recipients of discrimination and (in some cases) outright verbal abuse for choosing to do as humans have done for the last 10,000 years (and choosing NOT to hide in a disgusting bathroom to do it). These women want more women to breastfeed so that society once again sees it as a normal function of the female body instead of the grossly twisted sexual issue it has become. They're being told that something entirely natural, something that has allowed mankind to live and flourish for the last 10,000 years or so, is unnatural. They want people to educate themselves. So I don't care if you formula feed or breastfeed, just educate yourself on what's really involved with both before you make your decision.

Just by the fact that women don't even consider the benefits of bf on themselves tells me that the formula companies are indeed succeeding with their campaign to switch everyone to formula, they've taken the mother out of the equation. (by that I don't mean that the mother isn't needed, I mean that the health of the mother isn't even mentioned)

I know its best for babies, thats why I feel guilty .

In the fog of my guilt (surfing the net whilst expressing all his feeds), I did alot of research about the benefits. I concur wholeheartedly with many of the studies but I did find a number of articles in the popular press that criticised the one-sided nature of the NHS campaign, for example. Sometimes, I think that they do want mothers to feel guilty in order to encourage breastfeeding - well meaning but difficult for those who genuinely struggle and dwell on it for years afterwards.

Missy I understand that you feel all women should breast feed if they can...the trouble is we all have things we think all Mothers should do. That we are absolutely convinced would benefit babaies and children...

But should we really impose those veiws and values upon others?

As a society we seem to have decided that FF is a suitable alternative to BF. Yes, advertising may play a part, but many many women have simply voted with their feet.

If you were breastfed and then ate crap for the rest of your life of course you are more likely to be overweight.

However - it is possible that those early experiences of milk feeding affect weaning, which affects toddler diet, which affects child diet and so on. It can set a pattern in motion.

Breastfed babies may have better appetite control. They are more likely to accept a wider range of foods at weaning and beyond. They are less likely to have rapid early growth. They are less likely to put on larger amounts of fat in the first year. They are also more likely to eat a healthier diet as children (even when socioeconomic background and maternal weight is controlled for).

So yes it may have long term effects in this way - but is not some kind of shield. And again it inceases risk but this is not a definitive

I was never interested in which FF was "cloest to breastmilk" - I was interested in

a) price

b) would my DS's drink it

One thing I will say - is that while none of them are "close to breastmilk" (how can they be - they're cow milk based and can't contain my antibodies to pass on ) they are NOT all the same............some babies (DS2) will drink anything that's thrown their way.........others (DS3) are more fussy

Thanks Baroque

"If I was to ask the question 'Which formula is closest to breastmilk?' what would you say and why would you say it"

I would say a whey based formula with two of the LCP's that naturally occur in breastmilk. I'm on the fence about whether I would also include probiotics in the criteria.

So, SMA gold, Cow and Gate Premium or Aptimil, for the reasons stated above.

As far as I am aware (and things may have changed), no other brand has the 2 LCP's (long chain polyunsaturates used by the body for brain and eye development) that these brands do, and please someone correct me if I am wrong.

I did not come into any of this information via advertising, no formula advertising that I have seen goes into that kind of nutritional detail, its all about boiling kettles in the middle of the night and fwuffy bears.

what would you like us to do? cry with shame each time we feed our baby f because we are a) halfwits which are lulled into a false sense of security by big business or b) lazy women who are second best to all the BFers out there?
I personally thank the lord there is a plan B readily available for when plan A didnt work and I am not naive enough to think that formula companies arent going to spin every aspect of their product to put it in the best light.
Why wouldnt they?
Obviously you'd be happier if they told us it was like cut cocaine so we could not conceal our dirty secret from society any longer

Tatty - As fomula is a nutritional product and not a medicine (which has to prove that an added ingredient is actually available to the body) I would be interested in whether LCPs added to formula are actually absorbed across a baby's gut. Let me explain - if you take vitamin/mineral tablets as a nutritional product even if they contain a certain ingredient in the tablet this does not mean it is actually available to be absorbed in the gut - it would depend on the formulation of the product. A manufacturer would only need to prove this if the product became licensed as a medicine.

The same would be true of formula - even though it can state on the tin it contains LCPs it does not automatically mean that it has been formulated in such a way that it is nutritionally available to the baby.I am not even sure if manufacturers have to back this up with clinical evidence? So adding certain ingredients to their product - is it a marketing ploy? Or is their actual proof?

MilaMae you are the other end of the spectrum of the inappropriately-called 'bf nazi'. .

risk is risk and yes if bottle fed infants are more likely to get certain things because they have been fed formula. more likely doesn't mean definitely and i'm sure a good amount of human touch (facilitates secretion of growth hormone) is equally effective at enabling a little baby to grow, among other things, like sleep. but you cannot get away from the fact that statistically speaking, ff babies are more at risk of various illnesses.

I am equally about LCPs added to formula. There were even some studies some babies got extremely ill from being fed LCP enriched formula.

Puppette - I think all mums regardless of how they feed should be given honest relevant information.

Perhaps the term you are looking for is ff-fascist, Ruby?

I'm not imposing my views on anyone wordfactory, I am merely using the fact i can freely express my opinion to do so

I don't expect people who are happy to use formula to agree with me and everyone is entilted to their view

but mine is mine and i like to share it!