to want to get married?

[marriagematerial]

I've been with my DP for six years, living together for almost four. I'm in my late 30s and have a daughter from a previous relationship. The past few years I've dropped quite a few hints that I'd like to get married, but DP says he doesn't see the point in marriage at all. Neither of us are religious at all - in fact he is strongly athiest. I broached the subject seriously yesterday (as opposed to the usual slightly barbed humour/hints) and said that it is something that matters to me; to be legally recognised as his next of kin and as his wife. Partly it's that I feel the terms 'girlfriend/boyfried' to be a bit ridiculous in reference to a long-term relationship between people over the age of 30, 'partner' still seems a bit too much like a business partner, and 'other half' is a little bit naff. I'd prefer to be able to say 'my husband'. Is that a really trivial reason for wanting to be married?

DP feels that the 'promise' of marriage is not one anyone can realistically make - things change, people change; if the relationship breaks down then having promised to stay together forever isn't going to make any difference. I have no illusions about marriage being necessarily forever either - I'm divorced after a short marriage years ago. His parents were unhappily married, mine were messily divorced. Yet I still want to be his wife, for the reasons I've listed and also something more, that I can't quite put my finger on.

I'd thought that it might be because I haven't got anything to offer financially - I only work part time - or that he'd think I'd then have a claim to the house (it's in his name only). He swears that's not the case and that he's happy with our situation, and I think he knows me well enough to know that I wouldn't try to get any money from him if we separated.

So....aibu to want to get married even when he's stated that he doesn't. And would it be a hollow joy if we did get married, knowing that he didn't really want to? [confusion]

I agree with givemeaclue. It really does sound like you (OP) think of marriage as possibly temporary. And your partner doesn't rate it at all. Wanting to call him your husband seems to be all you have as a reason.

TobyLerone "There are many reasons why one might not ever intend to get married.
But there doesn't always have to be some kind of slightly sinister reason."

No I don't think there is a sinister reason, really, and I don't think he has any plans to leave me or is 'holding out for a better offer' or anything - he's just not like that.

"Also, FWIW, I do think that wanting to call him your husband is a very trivial reason for wanting to get married."

Yes it is rather, isn't it..

Manatee the thing is, I don't feel that you can realistically promise to stay with someone until death do you part, no matter what, either. What if they beat you up, cheat on you, stop treating you well, etc etc etc? But to me the vows are an act of faith, and for me I'd like to be legally recognised as each other's next of kin and committed partner.

I really don't think he has an escape rucksack packed, so to speak - I don't doubt his commitment to me, despite this reluctance to get married.

Yes, it

Surplus 'yes it' at the end there...wondered where that had gone.

My DH married me because he knew it was very important to me. He would have been happy either way. He rather unromantically stated that having a home together was a bigger commitment than marriage and sort of shrugged at all the notion of marriage cementing us, as if he would never question us being apart, marriage or not.

I do like being Mrs rather than partner and what have you. I do like the children having married parents. I know they don't really matter in the overall scheme of things, but I guess it's just nicer.

14 years later and I have to say that being married has helped us stay together through some bad patches. It just seems to carry a little more weight in my mind for reasons I haven't really thought about.

However, if your DP feels he can't make those promises to you then you need to learn to respect his honesty. I imagine there are many people (probably men mainly) who have agreed to marriage when they don't really want to do it.

As far as next of kin etc etc I think you can legally formalise all that.

FWIW, OP, I don't think YABU for wanting to get married as an abstract concept.

Bonkers you've summed up exactly how I feel and how I think DP feels - I don't think he ever questions us being apart either, he just doesn't see the point in getting married. And you're right about respecting his honesty too. I'll look into whether we can legally designate each other as our next of kin. Thank you.

Maxicosi last night was the first time we've really discussed it properly, and I'm glad we did. I'm just processing it really, and looking at my own motivations too. Hence the thread.

givemeaclue Maybe it's not enough of a reason to get married. When I examine my feelings about marriage, I realise that no, I don't see it necessarily as more 'permanent' than choosing to live together and plan for spending your lives together. I think that people can marry for the best of reasons with the very best of intentions, and end up ripping each other (and their children) to pieces in the divorce court a few years later. Is that any better than going into it with your eyes open, acknowledging that marriages, like any relationships, don't always work out, but that we'll do the very best we can and treat each other with respect? Is getting married only a valid choice if you're convinced you'll be together forever? I'm not sure!

Marriage I am beginning to think that the point is you want to, him saying he doesn't see the point isn't really a great answer. So 'does my preference take precedence over his indifference' I think it would if he felt the same.

At first I thought everyone was being harsh but actually the more I think about it the more I think they might be right.

I am single and can't see myself ever getting married but if I did I would have a pre-nup. and I would elope. But I would also want lots of legal things drawn up before I even lived with someone (I have my DD I want to protect in case anything ever happened). This has nothing to do with the man, especially as he doesn't even exist lol I had a point, oh yes, maybe your dp has had this notion of marriage in his head before he met you and therefore it isn't really about you, but does that make it worse or better?

I guess you need to decide what you want and if you want to stay or not

When I met DH I couldn't see a reason to get married, even when we were happy and settled. However, it was important to him and after we started to talk about it seriously, it became more important to me. You have only just had the first serious conversation, the fact that he now knows what you want will change how he sees things (I can't guarantee what change). I don't think what he says in the first conversation should be considered set in stone - honestly. When I realised how DH felt, I wanted him to have the security and symbol of love he wanted and unexpectedly started to want it in return (as it was his way of showing commitment and love IYKWIM).

Wait until he next brings it up, has had time to think about the conversation you have had - I don't think you need to be worried yet.

"But to me the vows are an act of faith, and for me I'd like to be legally recognised as each other's next of kin and committed partner."

Couldn't agree more. My parents had a miserable sham marriage that fucked me up for years and years. I'm engaged now, and very happy about it, but only got to a point where I could even consider doing that after a fair bit of therapy soul-searching.

To me, there's a value to that act of faith, even if you know from bitter experience that it might go wrong. But it sounds as though you've both been knocked about a bit by your experiences. I wonder if your earlier experiences are affecting you both much more than is obvious on the surface.

OP, I pretty much view marriage as a practical thing, not a romantic or religious thing. It makes no difference to how I live on a day-to-day basis, but it sits in the background ready to swing in in case of disaster. If myself or DH die, the survivor is protected by law because we are each other's next of kin. If your DP dies, you are not his next of kin, that would probably be his parents. All his worldly goods would then be theirs. You might become homeless pretty quickly.

Have you and your DP discussed this aspect of marriage?

Sorry OP but if he wanted to get married, he would have asked you by now. He doesn't want to, obviously. You can push it all you like but if you get married, it will be because you pushed. Is that really worth it to you? That's very sad.

If its just about the legal side, you can have a will, legal contracts etc. Marriage is usually about more than that. But it doesn't make any difference how any of us see it, your DP has made it quite clear how he feels about it, and you can only decide what to do with that.

We got married after 16 years together and somehow I just dont like it. Feel as though I've lost my identity - would like to turn back time and just be a couple (with kids)so the moral of the story is the grass isn't always greener, from my perspective anyway

To put another view on it, I am the wife that LeQueen talked about.

DH and I had been friends for years and while he had some longish term girlfriends he was never with anyone longer than 2 years. He hadnt lived with anyone apart from a bunny boiler who was supposed to be staying a week til her new flat was ready and then refused to move out, and a girlfriend that came out of a house share. Both times he left within a year. He always said he would never get married as he wasnt the "type" (whatever that is!) and having seen his dad marry and divorce 3 times, he didnt want that. One GF in particular I remember, as she and I were friends, was desperate to marry him. Me and her other friends all told her that he would propose when he was ready but she did everything she could to force it and of course, it didnt happen.

Then we got together. Within 6 months we were living together and he had proposed. He made a huge thing of the engagement and insisted we have a big wedding because he wanted all of his friends and family to know and witness our marriage. No one was more surprised than me that he wanted to get married and I was asked by almost everyone if we "had to get married" because I was pg!

So sadly I would be wondering if the saying is true "When he says he doesnt want to get married, it means he doesnt want to marry you". If this is his first long term relationship perhaps he is wondering whether there is still something better out there and doesnt want to cut himself off from that by marrying you. I hate to say this, I really do but my Spider sense is telling me that there is more to this than atheism and the old "its just a piece of paper" argument.

And the GF I mentioned above no longer speaks to me, not because we got together, she was ok with that as they had been split over 5 years. But because he proposed to me not her and she thinks I tricked him into it!

I have a DD from a previous relationship and a DP who I don't live with yet. I wouldn't consider living with him without being married. If you have a child to think about, you should both be thinking in terms of a long-term relationship, I wouldn't even have introduced DD to a man who thought we might not be together forever.

It's difficult to replicate all of the various legal/financial protections that marriage offers. You only have to browse through the legal threads to see the difference in situations of married and cohabiting couples splitting up. If your DP dies, will you be protected financially?

I think it's sad that you don't think you have any right to a claim on his assets in the event of a split - are you prepared for you and your DD to suffer the drop in living conditions due to the lack of financial protection? For married couples, it's accepted that you'd have a claim due to supporting your DP and looking after the home while he worked - that still applies to your situation now, yet you don't have that protection.

I think many people are missing the point here.

To get married is not just about the legalities. If that was the case then OP can simply get her name put on the mortgage, wills written up etc.

It's the commitment and if he's not willing to make that commitment then why not? I think its a perfectly valid question.

If its because of the cost, that can be dealt with. If its about some religious issue, that can be respected. But if its just because he doesn't want to commit so he's got an easy parachute packed then that's different.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think for me my reluctance to get married was because I knew deep down in my heart of hearts that one day the relationship would run its course. But with my current DP, I can't ever imagine ever wanting it to end so to that end, marriage no longer is a problem.

Does that make sense?

MM
I was with hubby for 7 years before we got married,.initially we both said we would never get married again. We both had 2 previous(sounds like a criminal background).
My reason were probably trust issues and fear of being controlled again, his were more complex than mine. He said he couldn't make a promise that relied on another's actions .His 1st wife had several affairs and his 2nd wife ran off with his best friends wife (oh trust me , you couldn't make this up . I sort of understood because he explained how he felt guilty for not loving someone who he had vowed to love forever even though it was them that had done the betraying.
Anyway for 5 years that was fine by me, but then I started to change and I wanted marriage. He still said no, he wasn't mean or nasty about it, just said he hadn't changed his mind, Every so often I would mention it and he would smile and say ...ahh but you know how I feel. I was always secure in the knowledge he loved me.People would ask would we ever get married and I quite openly would say.... Yes I would but he doesn't want to. That it was me who had changed rules not him ....
This went on for another couple of years. I didnt nag him , I occasionally mentioned it but never in a confrontational way and he always knew it was never ever going to be an ultimatum.

I'm not sure what happened but 2 years ago I was very very ill, he asked me then. A sympathy proposal? A lord i could loose her proposal? A lets get her insured proposal? Dunno .....no none of those things as I was always going to get better, and anyone who can propose to someone who is wheezing like a hyena, has hair so greasy its stuck to your forehead, is dripping in sweat, is vomiting into a bucket and needs help going to the loo, well he must love them for all the right reasons....
I have since said that I think he only asked cos he thought it would be safe cos he probably thought I would pop my clogs before the date.

Anyway I said yes, to a quiet away from it all simple ceremony, come back and tell people we had married.

Nope he wanted the whole shebang, all family and friends, (apart from the church bit (we had registry) We said our own vows. His were beautiful and had everyone crying..... It was a fantastic day full of love an celebration.

I dont know why he changed his mind,but I do know it had to be his idea and that when he asked I knew he meant it because no way would he ask just because I wanted to,It had to be when it was something he felt ready to do too. All I am saying is , If it happens , let it happen for the right reasons, no pressure and no ultimatums... .
Being unmarried is not making you unhappy, at the end of the day you love each other and it works. All the rest is cosmetic .......
Stay happy
peace xx

I've got a friend like this. Was with GF1 for 11 or more years, 'happy' but never wanted to get married, said just wasn't him, said he felt marriage ruined relationships having seen his parents divorce - she decided she did want marriage, left him, met someone new and married.

Same with GF2, lasted a few years until she decided she did want marriage and left. She tried really hard but he just wasn't moving.

GF3 - he proposed to within 6 months. Everyone was shocked because he'd been so anti-marriage for so long.

Turns out, he'd just not met the right girl.

MarriageMaterial... Do you see marriage as some sort of 'ultimate commitment' or perhaps that there's some kind of 'grading system' to relationships, to have somebody who loves you enough to want to marry you (rather than look at it that you want to marry them)?

Your OP is actually quite poignant... you want him to want to be married to you, it reads to me that it's important what other people think of your relationship.

I don't think it's the terminology either, that's 'smoke and mirrors', it's the ultimate badge of 'marriage' and that people see you as a complete unit come way may.

I understand the way you feel, but if your partner doesn't want to marry you, no amount of persuading from you is going to give you what you want... ie. that he wants to marry you.

All you can do (and it's got to be enough) is to celebrate your relationship and what you have together.

Turns out, he'd just not met the right girl.

Another one here who knows a couple who were together for a very long time, lived together, had a shared business etc. They split up and within a couple of years he was married to someone else and starting a family!

If a couple just don't view marriage as important, then I don't think that they love each other any less than a couple who've chosen to marry, but I think there is something wrong when one person actively doesn't want to marry the other person. My DH watched his parents battle throughout his childhood, so didn't really have much faith in concept of marriage early on. But it became important to me as we had a child and I wanted to be each others next of kin etc. He married me more because it was important to me than himself. If he had been reluctant to do so, then I would have had serious doubts about his level of love and commitment.

I don't think your reasons for wanting to get married are silly. when DH and I got married, nothing changed in terms of our daily lives, but we both felt different. It was a good change and has added something that I find very difficult to define to our relationship. It's invisible but it is there

Niceguy i wish you were my DP. It is so lovely to have a mans point of view.

My DP has never married for very similar reasons to the ones you state.

OP - as we all get older there is always the security issues. My cousin died last year leaving his grilfriend with hardly any securtiy. The next of kin issues do become more real over 40 than under IYKWIM.