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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask why some people are such self-serving tossers?!

36 replies

JaneS · 25/02/2011 11:56

A couple of days ago I ran into someone I was an undergraduate with, at a drinks meeting. He's someone I was reasonably friendly with, usually nice enough but we're not close at all. We had a 'conversation' that really pissed me off - I asked him some polite questions about how his work was going (we're both doing PhDs) and he answered at length, with a fair amount of 'oh, aren't I wonderful' guff. He didn't ask me any questions back except for asking me if I was enjoying newly-married life.

This would have been fine, except this drinks meeting had quite a lot of academics at it (ie., the people PhD students are meant to impress and network with), and a guy who's a big name came over midway through and ended up in the conversation. My 'friend' talked over me, went on a lot about himself, etc. Fairly predictable. He managed to drop into the conversation how surprised he was I'd ended up doing a PhD too since I got a 2:1 at undergradute, etc., and also how well he was doing with so many chapters of his PhD written. Although we've been there the same amount of time, it was obvious to me that I'm a lot further on, so when the senior academic asked me if I were doing a PhD too I told him how far I'd got.

I left before both of them. Today in my inbox I have an email from the 'friend' who says 'Prof X and I talked after you left and we both agree your work would really take off if you read A, B and C, I've found them really useful and we think it could really make what you're working on into a proper project. I could email you the details if you like?'

I am just fuming and I really want to know what he said to the Prof after I left. I feel really crap. I can't help suspecting this guy has been running me down and making out that I don't really know what I'm doing and was lying/naive about the stage I said I was at in my work.

I'm partly just ranting here but really furious too.

OP posts:

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 11:56

Oops, sorry that was so long! Am dashing to the bus now but will be back soon.

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porpoisefull · 25/02/2011 12:04

'Proper project' - what a patronising git! Prof X may well have seen through him though.

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 12:24

Possibly - but I did see how the Prof reacted to this guy pointing out I had a 2:1, and it wasn't good.

My friend has also seen this email and she reckons he is just being helpful but a bit insensitive. I honestly can't see it.

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AgentZigzag · 25/02/2011 12:35

He sounds a right cheeky twat!

Saying he's surprised after you got a 2:1, and that they'd been talking about you after you went

If he thinks it's OK to be like this with you, then he must be like it at other times, like porpoise says, people will know him for who he is.

Surely the prof would never base any judgement on you having a 2:1 would they?

Let your work speak for itself.

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 12:40

I don't know Zig, they might. It's a bit of a snobby kind of place and occasionally people do act as if the best people are those who have a very consistent high-scoring record. I don't hide my 2:1 but obviously I don't go around advertising it either and usually people don't ask.

I get the impression this guy is just very good at self-promotion. I have heard really good things about him from other people who're very impressed with his work so it is possible he genuinely feels he's in a position to help me by suggesting things. That's what my mate reckons. OTOH he winds me up and I have a sneaking feeling he thinks it's because I know I can't compete with him. I don't think he's right but the track record would suggest he is.

Meh.

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poodlerockin · 25/02/2011 12:45

He sounds like a cock. Ignore his email and avoid him from now on.

Ephiny · 25/02/2011 12:47

You get people like this in academia unfortunately, I do know the type (and most likely the Prof will too)!

I would have a quick look at the papers suggested, just in case they actually are relevant and useful to you (though if they are you're probably already aware of them!) otherwise just ignore. There's a good chance he's misrepresenting what actually happened with the Prof after you'd left (e.g. 'we both agree' trying to make it seem like they're equals and you're beneath them) just to put you down and make himself feel like a big man. Don't let him get to you.

I agree with letting your work speak for itself, focus on getting some good publications out there!

Understand you being so annoyed though, I'm doing a PhD too and would be furious if someone did this to me

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 12:47

Mmm ... I was actually wondering about writing him a snippy reply (this is not AIBU by stealth, honest ... just was thinking I might). I know it would be more grown up to ignore it but it feels as if I ought to join him at his own game and show him I'm not going to go quiet while he pushes himself forward at my expense.

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Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 12:50

Thanks for the sympathy Ephiny. I expect the papers are good but they are focussed on something I don't really agree with, that would take my work in a totally different direction. Basically, they're about something that is quite a well-known hot topic atm, and people do often assume I will be using the same approach. I'm not, as it happens, because I don't entirely agree with it, but it is far more well-known and popular than what I'm trying to do.

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SusieFlo · 25/02/2011 12:50

What an utter cock. Console yourself in the knowledge that you can't be the only person who thinks so...

bellaella16 · 25/02/2011 12:51

YANBU You may be being oversensitive re email but based on his twattery at the meeting I doubt it. Agree with suggestion you check out the papers just in case then...

Turn the tables. Reply to Self Serving Twat (SST) thanking him for the info. Ask what SST is thinking by 'proper project' and 'we' could make something of it - did the prof suggest a collaboration with SST? SST then has to crap or get off the pot. In his ego eyes you will simply be seeking clarification from SSTs greatness.

Then, based on his reply you will know for sure and a simply 'Oh thank you, I'm further ahead than you... do get in touch if you need any help' should do it. Polite but it will kill him :) btw I have a 2.1, two masters and a D.Phil ;)

poodlerockin · 25/02/2011 12:53

No! You can't win against people like this. If you get his back up he could be even worse in future. Just ignore and avoid.

AgentZigzag · 25/02/2011 12:54

'He sounds like a cock'

I love this as a description, in this case a patronising cock?

If you pen him a shitty reply, he sounds like the type of bloke who'll 'innocently' bring it up at every opportunity to whoever will listen.

It'll only make you feel better for the second it takes you to click 'send'.

Don't play his game, you'll lose because you're not a cock

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 12:56

Ooh, bella, I like it! Hadn't thought of asking if the Prof had suggested collaboration but that would be highly amusing!

(Btw, very nice to hear you have a 2:1 and such an impressive record - I'll remember that another time and feel better!)

poodle - I would tend to agree in 'daily life' type scenarios but then people always make such a big point of saying that if you're working you need to self-promote in that very stereotypically masculine way, so I wondered.

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tisallabitofafaffisntit · 25/02/2011 13:01

Is a 2:1 something to be ashamed of then?

bullet234 · 25/02/2011 13:02

"I don't really agree with, that would take my work in a totally different direction".
Then don't. Your "job" with your research is not to parrot back what you have read, it is to use your reasoning, your logic and your research to debate and set forth your own theories about your work. Whether you broadly agree with established theories, or whether you use your knowledge to found your own is irrelevant. What matters is that you need to have the awareness and the conviction to be able to set forth your arguments in a concise and proven way.
By suggesting to you that you change the very point of your PHD research to fit in with other theories, your fellow student is inferring that your own hypotheses are weak and lack merit. The dig about the 2:1 is particularly pathetic, since whilst I can understand that in your field a first may be far more desirable, a 2:1 should still not be sneezed at.

plupedantic · 25/02/2011 13:07

Don't put anything in writing without thinking of what use might be made of it.

However, with regard to their (? or his?) arrogant assumption that you need steering in your topic, you can let him know that you are more interested in a different part of the field which hasn't been so overdone.

Prof is a twat, too, though I note from your account that he at least had the courtesy to involve you in the discussion by asking whether you were doing a PhD.

By the way, I can't remember what field you are in, but undergraduate degrees are very broad, so it could be that some subject - which you are not specialising in now - pulled you down. I know that happened to me throughout my B.A., and even as far back as GCSE, as I'm just a rather specialised person () and what I'm good at, I am good at. If you were accepted to do a PhD/DPhil (have you got funding, btw?), then your talent to carry the subject forward will have been obvious to the number of people who had to approve you.

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 13:15

I don't think so tis! It's a bit unusual but I think he was making more of it than it needed to be.

bullet - yeah, that's exactly how I felt, that he was suggesting my theories weren't as good as the ones he was suggesting. Glad I'm not the only one who read it like that.

Anyway, rightly or wrongly, I liked the idea about collaboration so I have emailed back to ask if the Prof brought this up and if we should meet up sometime to discuss it.

We'll see what happens.

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Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 13:19

plu - too late, sorry. . But to be honest, I think the worst that could be made of it would be that I genuinely did end up with him contacting the Prof to ask about collaboration, and that would a) be amazing, and highly unlikely to get a positive response and b) quite easy for me to get out of if it turned boring.

I'm not sure if the Prof is a twat; I've only this guy's word that they did really agree I needed to do something else. (I don't want to think badly of him because he is an amazing scholar!)

I do have funding. I think my BA was not so good partly because I'm not at my best in exams, and partly because I was having some nasty mental health issues at the time and wasn't working very well. To be fair, this guy has a scholarship from an Oxford college so he is incredibly good (we're not at the same uni!).

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plupedantic · 25/02/2011 13:26

Well, you must have satisfied someone quite nicely, if you have funding, as I seem to remember yours is an arts subject (so no industry grants)!

I guess you are in the same field as SST, so would further meetings give him a chance to repeat his "go" at you? Or give you a chance to have "go" at him: consider the proposed collaboration, then snub it as it sounds "less interesting" than what you are doing? Imagine SST's face if you dis(mis)sed him like that in front of the Prof! (if the prof deigned to be present for such a meeting...)

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 13:30

To be honest, I suspect what will happen is he simply won't reply to the email, or will replying saying I've misunderstood and collaboration wasn't being offered. But I feel better for standing up for myself.

It seems as if such a lot of the this is game-playing and I know I will sound very hard-line here, but I do think it's a kind of game playing that some men are particularly good at doing while excluding women.

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wellwisher · 25/02/2011 13:36

I would have contacted the Prof directly, cutting out the tosser, and taken it from there...

tisallabitofafaffisntit · 25/02/2011 13:40

Hopefully everyone else he meets has the same opinion as you. I would conclude that he has to sing his own praises at the expense of others because he sees you as a threat. Hopefully the big name will have noted you for all the right reasons and probably just humoured SST.

And maybe the expression on the senior academic's face was a reaction to SST's belittling of your 2:1 and not the degree itself.

Original poster

JaneS · 25/02/2011 13:43

I don't think I could have done that well. For all I know, the conversation afterwards may not have been anything like what this guy suggests (sorry, I'm a cynic). And if it was, it's most likely that this guy said something like 'oh, she should be reading such-and-such, shouldn't she?' and the Prof said 'yes, that makes sense'. I sincerely doubt they had an in-depth debate about my research. I just can't imagine a Prof would be that interested, tba. They're usually just slightly vague because they don't want you to latch onto them!

What is possible is that this Prof has gone off with the idea that I'm completely naive about how good I am and how far on I am in my PhD, and my 'friend' has made him think I'm wildly off-base. That only matters insofar as it's not great for my reputation, but I doubt emailing the Prof to correct it would look anything other than needy.

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Nassau · 25/02/2011 13:44

I would reply to tosser (including his email to you), cc'ing prof, saying thanks for the recommendations, you've read them but your work is going in a different direction (as you say yourself).

By cc'ing the prof you are letting him know what's been said, and that you have looked at the recommended reading IF he actually said that to tosser. More than likely tosser is trying it on and Prof didn't say anything at all.

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