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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that a landlord can't refund your deposit then ask for some of it back?

53 replies

pinkgirlythoughts · 23/02/2011 17:14

OK, just typed a really long message then lost it, so this is the shortened version :o

A friend and I have just moved out of a rented property. The estate agent told us that they would be keeping some of our deposit back to pay for repair work, but then refunded us the entire deposit, plus sent us an invoice through the post confirming that the full amount was refunded, and none retained. A week later, they then sent us a letter asking for payment of the money that they had originally said they would keep back from us.
Now we've had a letter from a debt recovery agency, saying that they've been instructed by the estate agents to collect the money from us immediately, or we'll be taken to court.
Now, I've lived in a few rented houses before, and never known a landlord to refund the full deposit, then ask for some of it back. As I understood it, once they've given the money back to you, it's your money again!
Advice from anyone with a legal background would be greatly appreciated, please!

OP posts:

FabbyChic · 23/02/2011 17:47

When you disconnect a washing machine you have to put something in the overflow or when the sink is run it floods. If you did not put anything in the overflow when someone used the sink it would have flooded the floor.

Did you put something in their like a rubber glove or carrier bag? If not then you in effect caused a leak.

Even inadvertently, albeit someone should have checked before they turned the tap on and used the sink.

Tell them the carpet in the hall way was general wear and tear and you are not responsible for the cleaning of it after however long you lived there.

Tiredmumno1 · 23/02/2011 17:58

Fabby, you are wrong there it has nothing to do with the sink, that would not have caused it to flood

Plumm · 23/02/2011 18:09

The onus is on the landlord to prove that you caused damage (as I found out when I took my last landlord to arbitration). If, as you say, there was no damage when you handed the keys back (and this should have been when the inventory was done) the landlord has no proof as is trying to pull a fast one.

Speak to the TPS again to make sure they have the full story in case it does go further.

And don't worry about people turning up on your doorstep - debt collection agencies are not allowed to do that and I can't see them taking you to court as they won't be able to prove you damaged anything.

Do yu still have a copy of your signed inventory?

TheMonster · 23/02/2011 18:15

We have thousands of letters week (ok, slight exaggeration, but it is a lot) saying debt collectors are coming to visit us. None have ever turned up.

Original poster

pinkgirlythoughts · 23/02/2011 18:16

Unfortunately we don't have a copy of the inventory from when we moved in any more, and we were never given anything when we checked out- we were asked to give the keys back to the estate agents office, and that they would perform the checkout themselves. I really wish we'd insisted on being there now!

OP posts:

FabbyChic · 23/02/2011 18:18

Tiredmummo

The washing machine has an overflow generally the overflow i.e for the water outlet for the washing machine is under the sink, when you take the washing machine outlet off of there and run the sink it floods the sink cabinet. I am not wrong it has happened to me twice, at four properties I have been at all the overflows for the washing machine has been under the sink. I too live in rented property and each time I have moved the overflows have been blocked with carrier bags those that havent has caused flooding when the sink has been used.

Plumm · 23/02/2011 18:20

The onus is still on them to prove it (it would have just been easier for you with an inventory). Did you admit liability for the damage?

Bogeyface · 23/02/2011 18:22

Fabby, that has never happened to me despite having no end of problems with my last washer that was out of the kitchen more often that it was in!

QueenStromba · 23/02/2011 18:38

Plumm's right that it's up to them to prove it which will be difficult for them without a check out inventory which you have signed or unless you admit in writing that the damage was your fault. A judge is unlikely to rule in their favour even if they thought you might be at fault because the whole point of the TDS was to stop the small claims court from being clogged up with this sort of thing. You said up thread that you were just going to agree to the deduction so your deposit wasn't held up in the dispute - for future reference, only the disputed portion of the deposit is held and they have to return the rest of it straight away.

HecateQueenOfWitches · 23/02/2011 18:43

I would argue that them giving you your deposit back was in itself confirmation that there were no issues at the end of the tenancy. If they now demand some back, then that's their tough luck

I am not a legal bod though, so have no idea what the law says about it!

But if they want to send baliffs in, like others say, they have to go to court.

I think I'd just go with "returning my deposit was your confirmation that there were no problems. I consider the matter closed. Feel free to take me to court and explain to the judge why you refunded my deposit if you felt that some should be held back." and see what calling their bluff does

Original poster

pinkgirlythoughts · 23/02/2011 18:46

Plumm, we've never actually admitted liability for the damage, and as I said, we never signed a check out inventory either. The more responses I'm typing to people's questions, the more dodgy the whole situation is starting to sound, to be honest! (especially the fact that they didn't want us to be there when they did the check out).

Having calmed down slightly after reading all of your responses, I've had another look at the letter they sent us, and the 'debt recovery agency' have the exact same address and phone number as the head office of the estate agency. It isn't a separate agency at all, it's a rather scary, 'official' looking letter, which I'm now quite convinced was just sent to try and frighten us into paying.

OP posts:

shewasashowgirl · 23/02/2011 18:46

Didn't you originally agree that you wouldn't get the full deposit back?
YABU

Plumm · 23/02/2011 18:52

Time to write them a very stern letter! They're trying to scare you into returning the money and should be reported the the TDS and any governing body they're a member of.

fwiw, I'm a landlord and until recently a tenant, so have been on both sides of deposit returns.

Bogeyface · 23/02/2011 18:56

"Dear Wanker (you might want to change that....or not!)

Thank you for returning my deposit in full, thereby agreeing that the property was in an agreeable condition when it was vacated.

yours

Ms P.G. Thoughts"

OohEr · 23/02/2011 18:57

See the C.A.B for sure.

QueenStromba · 23/02/2011 19:37

Very good idea Plumm. Might I suggest something along the following lines:

Dear [arsehole estate agents]/[fake debt collection agency],

I am writing in response to your letter dated XX/02/2010. It was my understanding that the return of our full deposit meant that yourselves and the landlord were satisfied with the condition of the property at the end of the tenancy. You are now asking us for money for repairs for damage that we have not witnessed and that you claim has been repaired. Assuming this damage did occur, it occurred after the end of our tenancy and we do not feel that we can be held responsible for it. Furthermore, we feel that you have tried to avoid going through the TDS by refunding us the whole deposit and then asking us for money, have no doubt that we will be informing the TDS of this. If you do feel like you have a legal case against us then feel free to file a claim against us in the small claims court, otherwise please desist from sending us threatening letters as it will be viewed as harassment and we will have no option but to seek legal advice on the matter.

Yours sincerely,

pinkgirlythoughts

LittleMissHissyFit · 23/02/2011 19:56

QueenS, outstanding letter and bang on.

pixiestix · 23/02/2011 20:09

Bloody well put QueenS.

LessNarkyPuffin · 23/02/2011 20:17

What BeenBeta said.

QueenStromba · 23/02/2011 20:23

Thank you LittleMissHissyFit. You can probably tell that I've had a few run ins with estate agents and debt collection agencies (none of whom were actually chasing money I owed). I've had British Gas set debt collectors on me twice. The first time was BG looking for money for after I had moved out of a place even though I moved my account to the new place so they knew where I lived and should have known I didn't owe them that money. The second time was when I lived in another place and since the contract said we couldn't change energy supplier and I'd had bad dealings with BG before I refused to be the person who dealt with them so I had my housemate do it. Two years later I got a letter from another debt collection agency chasing me for gas money for three months or so after we moved out. I was living with the housemate who's name was on the account in the old place and he never got a letter from them. BG just seem to hate me. If I hadn't had a previous issue with BG and if the letter had been slightly less threatening (and I didn't hate BG so much) I would have phoned them and given them the details of the lettings agents who would have been able to tell them who was responsible for the gas bill. I wrote them a letter threatening legal action for harassment if I got another letter from them that wasn't an apology and never heard from them again (I might have told them who to talk to if they apologised).

Lucyinthepie · 23/02/2011 21:47

Can I make a suggestion as a landlord? I think you should not speak to TDS but write to them, and enclose a copy of the estate agent's and "debt collectors" letters, particularly the one that confirms that no deposit was retained. Get a paper record going of all of this.
I would also write to the estate agent and the "debt recovery" agency enclosing a copy of your letter to the TDS and tell them that you will await TDS advice before responding further.

As said above, they are trying to get around the TDS and I think that this would be taken quite seriously. The deposit was lodged with the TDS, if the agent wanted any retained then they had to notify TDS and work through their procedures. Whatever you do, keep correspondence with the agents very brief and don't admit liability for anything. Don't say you were thinking of letting them keep money. They were not entitled to it, if they were they would have worked through the TDS. The onus would have been on them to prove their case, but as they have refunded the deposit and confirmed that nothing was to be retained, I suspect TDS will confirm that is the end of it.

CrazyHorse · 24/02/2011 07:45

I reckon some one has bummed up royally, and is now trying to get the money back. They've made a mistake which will cost them dearly(possibly their job), hence them now sending out the latest letter to recoup the money.

You weren't expecting the money back, so really it's down to your conscience what you do.

tyler80 · 24/02/2011 09:07

If you've ever rented for any period of time you don't expect the deposit back because you know what utter arseholes some landlords and letting agents can be. Just because you are not expecting the deposit back doesn't mean you're not entitled to it.

After the fight I had to get our last deposit back I understand why some people decide to let it go for a quiet life.

tyler80 · 24/02/2011 09:08

Meant to add, I don't think you need to have anything on your conscience.

ensure · 24/02/2011 09:16

Yes, send that letter above from Queen. They sound crooked.

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