Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

To think they should be allowed to have IVF?

92 replies

MrsShuffleBottom · 23/02/2011 14:25

When he has an ex wife with whom he had 2 DC and refuses to pay any maintenance for because he can't afford it. The DC are both approaching their teens and he has never paid a penny.

But he can find the money to partically fund IVF with his second wife, 90% of the tab is being paid by the NHS.

OP posts:

ValiumSandwich · 23/02/2011 16:45

Well, if I discovered my x who hasn't contributed a red cent in four years was having IVF with somebody else, I would feel angry and sick. Going to such deliberate lengths to bring more children in to the World when there are two that he won't contribute to.

I think I understand the OP's sentiments

StormInaCCup · 23/02/2011 16:49

This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth for a number of reasons. One, what is it to do with you? I can understand your annoyance about the man's failure to support his children, but really his fertility and the fertility of his DP doesn't concern you at all. Two, you seem to have an issue with the woman's age (asking how much in savings a 23 y/o is likely to have) again, mind your own! I have always been good with money and had a decent savings pot from being a teenager. Thirdly - I can't believe someone would say 'if it's any consolation' she won't get pregnant. It beggars belief.

I was 26 when I had IVF, it worked first time (I realise how lucky I am) and we paid for it all ourselves (was £4000). The guidance in our PCT is that couples with living children (of their own or previous relationships) are not eligable for funded IVF but I suppose this could differ from PCT to PCT.

My advice - keep your nose out.

Vallhala · 23/02/2011 16:50

No mishy.... but I fucking well have had cancer and I know what's more important to spend NHS money on and that's the life of a young mother of what were then infant children, not on bringing more children into the world, particularly to a father who doesn't feed those he already has. I will stand by and defend that statement to the day I die - infertility is not lire-threatening, cancer (like other serious illness of course) is.

In an ideal world the infertile person and the cancer sufferer could both have treatment. Unfortunately as we all know this is not an ideal world and something has to give. I would prefer that something to be soneone's desire to have children and not my life.

ValiumSandwich · 23/02/2011 16:50

ps, those saying, the nhs don't make moral judgements about obese people and smokers, this is different. It's not just about the patients, it's about the new human beings they might create.

OTTMummA · 23/02/2011 16:50

The face was at the predictability of that comment coming up which really had nothing to do with V's opinion.
Just an emotive statement bought out when you have little or nothing much to put forward.
And i am someone who has ongoing fertility issues missy, yet it always leaves my eyes rolling that statement.

OTTMummA · 23/02/2011 16:52

sorry, mishy*

ValiumSandwich · 23/02/2011 16:53

I have to agree with Vallhala.

In a perfect world we'd all be able to have children and nobody would get cancer. But it's not a perfect world, and their are shitty fathers, infertility and cancer... decisions have to be made and I think it's everybody's business. Well, not mine as I'm not in the uk, but the business of everybody in the UK

StormInaCCup · 23/02/2011 16:57

This thread has taken an interesting, if predictable, turn. Can I just add my 2 pennorth in to those debating the cancer vs IVF funding argument.

As someone who has had both cancer and infertility (the latter caused by the former - lucky me eh!) and has had cancer treatment funded by the NHS but private IVF, I can say that both are absolutely devastating in their own way. I couldn't actually tell you what was worse, the prospect of kicking the bucket at 25 y/o or being in remission and seeing my future plans for a family with my soon-to-be DH melt away. As much as people seem to get a kick out of doing it, there really is no point playing top trumps with the two, they're both fucking awful.

OTTMummA · 23/02/2011 17:00

Last i heard StormInaCCup you don't die of infertility.
Yes its fucking soul destroying, but you simply can not compare it to cancer at all.
You just can not.

Vallhala · 23/02/2011 17:00

Oh and by the way, mishy, one more thing. I answered that no, I have never had fertility issues as I conceived by choice the two children I have with remarkable speed.

My cancer diagnosis caused a miscarriage though and the second lot of cancer surgery I had robbed me of the chance of ever trying again and of ever having the son I always longed for.

I'd still put my then 5 and 6 year olds' right not to be raised in an orphanage and my right to life over and above anyone's right to have a child.

FioFio · 23/02/2011 17:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted

TheSecondComing · 23/02/2011 17:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Vallhala · 23/02/2011 17:07

Storm, X-post. I'm sorry to hear of what you went through. Perhaps my opinion that the threat of being dead in my 30s was far worse than the knowledge of infertility is borne of the fact that I had two children already.

Not just that I therefore could accept that at least I have children even if I can't have more but also - and far more importantly to me - the fact that I needed and wanted to live for the children I had.

Until there are the resources to provide for both life-threatening illness and something such as infertility, which, as unpleasaant as it is to many, is not something which will kill you, I believe that treating life-threatening illness must take priority. I also believe that treating our elderly better, not making them wait years in pain for hip replacements and so on must be a priority too. It's not just about matters which will affect me.

StormInaCCup · 23/02/2011 17:11

OTTMummA - actually I would say that I have every right to compare the two having experienced them both. I fully realise you 'don't die of IF' but quite honestly, to be in remission but then told that I will probably never have children was actually (to me at least) every single bit as devastating as getting the intial cancer diagnosis and thinking it was 'goodnight Vienna'.

The point I was making was that it is impossible and actually erroneous IMO to try and play 'top trumps' with the two conditions - because you wouldn't want either, both are devastating. Yes, you might not die of IF, but it changes your entire life.

Toygirl · 23/02/2011 17:14

My uncle and his wife had IVF treatment from the NHS even though my uncle already has a son from previous relationship. They got 3 chances then had to pay themselves after that. They are in Scotland though

ValiumSandwich · 23/02/2011 17:19

It's not an abstract top trumps for fun though, or for debate Storm. Sorry to hear what you went through, that is a double lot of bad luck, and nobdoy deserves that.
But from the NHS's point of view, I think they have to prioritising preserving/improving life.

StormInaCCup · 23/02/2011 17:23

Vallhala, you make a very good point there. My fear of the cancer was largely down to feeling that at 25 my life was over before it had begun and that the things I had planned - marriage, children, a family - were never going to happen. I felt like my life was a wasted opportunity. I can imagine that the prospect of losing your life and leaving your children prematurely must have been absolutely terrifying. I am 25 week pregnant now and the threat of a recurrance is all the more worrying now that I have my baby to consider too - I hope it is something I never have to face. I take it you are well now and in remission?

I too believe that cancer treatment must be funded as a matter of priority by the NHS but then I think that funding for IF treatment should not be cut either (what a utopia that would be). In fact, although I was eligable for NHS treatment for IVF too I chose to go private as we could afford it and I felt I had already had my 'share' from the system IYKWIM.

The point I was making was that it is very difficult to argue that one treatment should get priority over another. It is unfair to compare infertility to cancer, as both are equally devastating IMO. I know it's difficult to imagine, but the prospect of never having children, was to me every bit as hard as the initial diagnosis.

StormInaCCup · 23/02/2011 17:28

Valium - please don't misunderstand me, I am agreed that saving life must come first every time. That is a common sense approach and certainly not one that anyone who has ever had cancer (or a similar life threatening illness) could ever disagree with. I just don't like it when people make sweeping statements about making cuts to IF funding as if it is nothing - when actually in my experience the diagnosis of IF was, jointly with the cancer diagnosis, the worst thing to ever happen to me.

People generally are in agreement that cancer treatment should be funded, but I believe that most people have no idea how devastating a diagnosis of IF is to those who experience it.

Mishy1234 · 23/02/2011 17:32

Vallhala- I am sorry and ashamed for my comment and yes, OTTMummaA is right it was an emotive statement. I actually logged off and was nervous to come back on and see what your reply had been as I knew as soon as I had posted that it was wrong. I'm sorry if I upset you and forced you to justify something which you shouldn't have had to.

LadyThumb · 23/02/2011 17:37

Dunno - didn't get further than your first correction!

Vallhala · 23/02/2011 17:59

Storm, we're both hoping for the same Utopia. :)

I'm well now thank you and I hope very much that you'll continue to be too. Good luck with that babe of yours. :)

Mishy, bless ya, it's not a problem, please don't give it another thought. You actually raised an interesting thought which I hadn't until now considered... yes, I do have fertility issues (more than any who are now in their 40s!) but I never thought of it like that, unlike Storm. Despite the pain of not having the son I already had a name and a life mentally planned for I viewed the situation as immeasurably less important or devastating as the threat of dying and didn't dwell on it, looking at it as a matter of no choice.

Honestly, please don't apologise.

Vallhala · 23/02/2011 18:00

PS Mishy... am I that scary that I cause people to log off and fear coming back?!

Mishy1234 · 23/02/2011 18:05

Thanks for your generosity of spirit Vallahla, I surely don't deserve it.

You didn't scare me, more I scared myself. It's not a comment I'm proud of, nor will I forget it for a while.

In any case, thanks for accepting my apology.

KnittingRocks · 23/02/2011 18:14

Please can we not perpetuate the myth that the NHS is only for life-threatening illnesses and that it is a choice between cancer and IVF.

There are millions of treatments provided by the NHS every year - and a large proportion of these are not at all life threatening.

Personally I would put IVF ahead of many treatments given out to people on the NHS but it's not my judgement to make. IVF is such an easy target and as storm quite rightly points out no one has any understanding of the agony of IF unless they have faced it.

TheSecondComing · 23/02/2011 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Swipe left for the next trending thread