to think that it is disgusting that in 2011...

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

So many people cannot raise a family without state support. The economy is so skewed towards the needs of the rich that it is almost impossible for many to support themselves entirely.

Wages are too low. Housing costs are too high.

Attacking those who have no choice but to rely on the state, is missing the point.

I agree that it is very hard for a family to live on an average wage and those people struggling to get by have my full sympathy.
However, that makes me even more cross that there are so many people who have chosen to live on benefits without ever paying their fair share into the system.

So what should they do if the only jobs they can get do not pay enough to live on? It's not much of a choice.

But that is the responsibility of the companies to pay more, isn't it, not the government?

I voted for Labour but couldn't believe it when I was getting tax credits on a higher than average wage.

Very few employers feel like they have any responsibility towards their staff these days.

YANBU
I earn a fair wage £25-30k bracket but can barely support my family. I read about people's mortgage payments being 1/3 of their take home pay - well our rent is 50% of mine, and essential bills add another £250 to that at least. Tax credits pay our weekly food bill and my diesel, which I need to get to work (12 miles away from my house, as we had to move out of the city to afford somewhere decent to rent rather than a shoebox). I also only get that much because last year's income was low (mat leave) and have no clue how we will manage come April. The rst of our outgoings are made up of mobile phones x 2, home internet and tv, contact lenses, vehicle insurance x 2, repayments of housing benefit and tax credit overpayments and a littlewoods account - hardly extravagent. Tragic.

Oh and I'm public sector - so pay freezes up the wazoo.

Crap init?

People go on and on about people not having children they can't afford, however that is coming to mean that only the rich will be allowed to breed!

We're essentially attacking the poor (both working and not) for existing. The real scandal is why do we have such a huge economic divide in our society?

Seems a chicken and egg thing, as the government pick up the slack, employers can get people who'll work for lower wage as they can live off it. As the wages aren't high enough, people need benefits to make it a living wage.

If benefits stopped, would more people start demanding wage increases? Would there be a very painful period of readjustment when demand for goods/services fell to reflect the wages people had? Not sure I'd want to live through that period though...

The reason people are entitled to tax credits atabove average wage is thataverage wage alone is not enough!

It is ridiculous. I don't know what there is to be done about it, but can't imagine it'll be anything good in the next few years.

I think what I am getting at is, attacking people for relying on state support to raise familes is idiotic and pointless.

I'd up the minimum wage for a start.

FakePlasticTrees - it depends what kind of job it is, for eg DH just had to leave a job as whole company was moving overseas. In a world wide recession there is always another country whowill work for less.

One idea would be to at least double minimum wage but that would have to be offset with tax cuts for businesses or they would not be able to cope. Many business models are basedon the low wages they pay.

The costwould also be passed on to customer, so cost of living in terms of food etc could go up even more.

There isn't an easy answer.

I agree with Stuckin. The minimum wage DOES need to rise.

The government just likes to suck up to the big companies and rich people. I personally think what they are doing (reducing the debt over two years instead of four or longer even) will destroy a lot of people in this country.

who would make up the extra if the minimum wage was doubled.
Live within your means, don't expect to live as well as someone who works, why should you.
No your child will not miss out because you can not afford a holiday etc etc.
Life is not fair, never has been , never will be

I think you've missed the point coccyx.

This is not about living well, so much as living full stop.

But the point is a minimum FULL TIME wage can be as little as 10-11k pa, which then has to be doubled by state benefits to make it possible live on. Not go on holiday, not have fancy trips, just pay their rent and heating bills and get some food in.

It is completely ridiculous that wages and living costs are so out of step that for more that half the population if the country it isn't possible to live on wages alone.

I think one of the underlying problems is the cost of property - either bought (ie mortgage) or rented. It always seems to me that if that one cost came down that would go a long way to helping everyone survive financially. PLus paying less to keep a roof over your head would not automatically mean increases in other costs - unless I'm missing something. However, I've no idea how this could be achieved....

I do. A massive program of construction of social housing. It would even give the construction industry a much needed boost.

Exactly. It is not right that a suitable family flat in my city costs nearly £1k a mont to rent (2 beds, parking, garden, what I consider necessary for a good quality of life with one or more DCs) as I can't afford that (on well over minimum wage) - when I earnt £14k I think I was taking home around £1k a month. So who has to pay my rent? The state. We were getting HB top ups when I was doing 4 days pw and my actual salary was about £25k. It's insane that £25k cannot cover the rent of a small 2 bed flat (and that was not top whack - no garden, outskirts of town).

I don't expect to be entitled to social housing, but if those who should be could be rather than HB paying £££££ to keep them in overpriced, badly maintained private rents, then eventually rents would fall. I would love for my salary to cover all our costs, it should, but it doesn't.

The government wants to cut the cost of HB - yet will not address the problems which lead to the huge bill - lack of affordable housing and inflated rents.

Social housing should make up roughly 50% of this country's abodes.

That would pretty much solve the problem.

On a full time wage of £230 per week, I could comfortably pay my £76 pw rent.

This is not the case in london, where rent for the same property can be upwards of £300 per WEEK>

its good to see people picking up on this and raising the issue. what we really need is what egypt did. we need a revolution with people in government who truly represent society, david cameron does not represent me or my back ground. no middle class people go to eton or ar relatives or royalty so he isnt standing for the middle classes either.

its elite ruling for the very rich and screw everyone else.

why do we need a revolution? We just had an election in which we could have voted for someone more in touch but we didn't.

Trixie - we have a shit system and many many people did not vote for DC or his party.

Although I agree we don't need a revolution like Egypt - they have had a dictator in power for generations - not quite the same

why does it have to be the same to warrant a revolution?

who is there more in touch?

We definitely do not want a revolution. They nearly always get hijacked by extremist groups and fail to achieve their aims.

Knittedbreast- why would a revolution help? What would it achieve given we already have free and fair elections with very few restrictions on people able to stand for Parliament.