to think that it is disgusting that in 2011...

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

So many people cannot raise a family without state support. The economy is so skewed towards the needs of the rich that it is almost impossible for many to support themselves entirely.

Wages are too low. Housing costs are too high.

Attacking those who have no choice but to rely on the state, is missing the point.

Agree that housing costs are at the heart of the issue.

If we had more affordable social housing, we wouldn't need wages to go up, so we would remain globally competitive without people having to fork out 2/3 their wages in rent for some crappy hovel with no security of tenancy.

What would we be revolting against? The Con Dems were elected fairly under our flawed system of democracy. There is a bill being proposed to review our electoral process.

Personally, if I had voted tory, I'd be pretty pissed off if a large section of society tried to overthrow them. I didn't, of course, and realise that I just have to live with the majority's idiocy opinion until I get the chance to vote in another GE.

2/3 of my wages on rent would be fabulous. As it is we only achieved 50% by moving out of the city where I work. Otherwise it would have been closer to 65%.

It's just getting worse.
The rise of zero hour contracts are a way of screwing the workers over even more. How can anyone be expected to live on htem?

Also tories have a proposal in to abolish minimum wage.

The universal credit scheme will encourage employers to act like this as it will be easier to work irregular hours and claim benefits (with the PAYE/HMRC informatino being linked directly to your benefit calculations). The intent being apparently to lead to a more 'flexible' labour market. Think more zero hours contracts, temporary work only etc. NO permamanent reliable jobs. An easy way to end workers rights - why protest when you will end up with no work.

After all essential outgoings i am left with little over £2 per month without tax credits and i live in social housing.

I work full time too in a good job.

So why am I so skint? I have no debts, that is without food and car into the mix. I think im skint because social housing rents are now in line with private rentals which defeats the object of being in social housing!!!

People see property as investment and not as a home now and until rents are capped to a very very low level nothing will happen to alter this skew.

Don't be so ridiculous. They can, they've just been told by so many public offices that they can't, that they now believe it.

They been taught from babyhood to stick out their hands and they just can't stop themselves now.

We were brought up wi' nowt. Never a thought of living off anyone else. Clothes from jumble sales, rented telly.

Get a grip.

The minimum wage isn't even a living wage, fgs.

hardhat- that is the problem.

I mean, if speculators want to drive share prices up, it's not such a massive issue because no-one has to have shares or get involved with them in any way. People don't have a choice about whether to get involved in housing or not.....well they do but it's a Hobson's Choice.

Get a grip?

When you have people working their arses off and still can't afford social housing you cannot 'get a grip'

It's not everyone, but it's so many people and so much whinging you can't tell who's making it up and who isn't. Have lost interest -- stuff the welfare state. Cried wolf too many times.

hardhatdonned

social housing rents are now in line with private rentals which defeats the object of being in social housing!!!

In my town social rents are 1/3 of private rents. I do not believe that your rent is in line with private rent unless you live in a very depressed area. The other benefit you have over me is security. You cannot be evicted on a whim. Don't underestimate that.

rightpissedoff - what intelligent, useful contributions you are making!

*rightpissedoff" . It's not about "getting a grip" or not though. It's about a pretty fragile state of affairs which doesn't seem sustainable.

According to the Independent the top 1% of earners in the UK now pay 25% of all income tax. That indicates a huge wealth gap that is not good for the economy or society and is a new phenomena.

I mean, who wants to live in a country where the choice is

1. Be an investment banker or
2. be poor

I'm not banker bashing btw. I just think a society where there's a huge "aspiration" gap is dangerous, because what's the point in trying if you can't significantly improve your lot through your own efforts?

rightpissedoff get on primelocation and tell me if there is one single 2 bed property available in your area for less than £300 a month. Because that's how cheap it would have to be for a minimum wage worker to afford it on their own.

I think people have different ideas of a standard of living though. Someone said on here they consider parking and a garden part of a standard setup. Well I have neither of those and our place is v small. You do have to make lots of compromises - but surely life has always been that way?

i wouldnt say first past the post is fair. id like to see pr

and we do need a revolution, it dousnt need to be the same as in egypt but we do need a change from the pricks we currently have in power. blair,brown,cameron,clegg, its all the same. we need to get rid of all of them and start again.

we also need to withdraw from capitalism, its crazy that as people we use a system that only supports business at the expense of people, we arent not businesses we are people and capitalism is not the best type of society to look after OUR needs

That's not a choice, that's a straw man argument.

Why do I care if it's constructive? It's what I think. I suppose you ought to be interested, because a lot of people are starting to think the same way.

I just don't believe it any more. Especially after those years of whining and whinging when in turns out that out of four million jobs created, two million went to incomers because our lot were too busy watching daytime TV.

Limit it to disabled people and carers. I'll be taking advantage of every tax loophole and benefit that I can in future -- I'm joining the club of "give me the money whether I need it or not".

Foxinsocks- agree that people's expectations have increased. There was some thread the other day where posters refused to accept that being "poor" in the UK is not as bad as being "poor" in Mumbai. i.e we have no absolute abject poverty in the UK.

However, the wealth gap does appear to be widening. We don't want to wake up and find that, outside the public sector, the only jobs left are either minimum wage or a few high level management/professional/finance roles. We need something in the middle, and those jobs are being eroded.

I dont know what the solution is unfortunately.

"We do need a revolution."

After 13 years of Labour governmet we need a revolution?

Some achievement.

rightpissedoff

Why are you on this thread?

Because I can be. You want to restrict that freedom?

Knittedbreast- what do you want, PR or a withdrawal from capitalism because you wont get both?

If you want to withdraw from capitalism you need to establish a dictatorship, benevolent or otherwise, although probably otherwise, because if you need people to go against human nature, you're going to have to coerce them.

Yes I agree re your aspiration gap post. Also I see at our work how lots of people don't want the extra responsibility that comes with jobs that earn more money and don't want to hit the higher tax rate thresholds.

Anyway, one of the lessons of history is that the greater the level of inequality in a society, the more unrest and disorder you will have.

That is not true bagged - I was on that thread, it was said many many times that of course being poor in the UK is not the same, but that it was irrelevant to the current conversation.

We do not need a revolution - revolutions are never a good idea unless there us a clear leader to take over (which there almost never is)