interfering cow discussing my baby boys penis

[Mammie81]

DP's family want my son circumsised. They've made it clear to me how 'unreasonable' I am being by not allowing it (not now, not ever... well, unless theres a medical reason)

Thats not the point btw, the point is that while we were changing him at DP's aunts, she asked if we were doing the op. I said no. She made some comment about it and I forgot all about it because no matter what bullying tactics they try, I wont back down.

Now shes told DP's mum, and Nan, and they are upset.

a) what has my baby's penis got to do with anyone but him
b) how DARE she walk around discussing my boys bits like they are commonplace information. How would she feel if I started a chat about her vagina
c) I hadnt told DP's mum or Nan myself because of a) its my boys willy and no one elses fucking business what we do

AIBU to be so fucked off to refuse to go near this bitch ever again. (And she is a bitch btw, DP's dad wont even talk to her because of other interfering things shes done, she makes DP's mum upset almost every week and for xmas she gave our boy a doorstop with her work details stamped on it)

I know I probably am BU but Im so fed up of bbeing told what to do by these people. I wish I hadnt even said 'No' when she asked and just said 'Fuck off' instead.

goldenbear

in reply to your post - I think you're wrong but I can empathise with your point of view

because that's what empathy is - an ability to understand other people's conceptual perceptions even when they are diametrically opposed to one's own

there is only a moral dimension in the debate about circumcision for a certain proportion of people - for others there is a moral imperative

Hi mammie - Before I get flamed I'm with you on the circumscision thing but it is very difficult for those of us who have grown up in the UK to get our heads round the cultural differences/ beliefs some people or cultures have about willies.

Dh comes from a Muslim culture where circumscision is the norm. What is also the norm in his culture is for circumscion to be celebrated and a happy public event. It's very similar to a wedding in that all the family come, there's a big party, lots of presents and sweeties. Dh's mum has family photos in the album of the actual operation as it was done on him. It is the norm (in that society) for parents of little boys to proudly show off their son's willy to visitors with lots of 'wow - a real man! God be praised!' type comments.

I am not for one minute arguing that this is an OK way to go about things. (I am very happy that dh agrees with me that our sons can make that decision for themselves if by any strange reason they might want to remove their foreskins later in life). I'm just pointing out that in some cultures there is such a totally different way of looking at the subject that it is fairly pointless feeling offended or annoyed at relatives talking about it. They will have absolutely no idea of why you might be feeling that.

Far better to explain openly in a friendly way that you don't believe in it and so it's not going to happen.

if your husband chose to marry and have children with someone outside of his religion/culture then he should have expected objections to religious and cultural norms and religious practices such as this. if he wanted someone that would be happy to follow all these traditions then he should have thought of that before.

however now you are married and do have children you will bring up the child with the morals and values that are dear to you, respect, no racism etc etc and he will also try and impart his values, as the child grows there will be many more issues like this to face so you should discuss this more imo.

and as for the gp's trying to influence him, why shouldnt they let their grandson know about theri beliefs and practices and culture#? that is not brain washing! the same way teaching kids to recycle or not be prejudiced against homosexuals is not brain washing, the child is not just yours but part of an extended family, and you should try and understand your dh's culture a bit more, and also try and patiently show them yours and i am sure your child can be raised with the best bits of both

Lesley33 - I can't help but find your post a bit offensive.

I don't think I would have chosen to have a family with someone who comes from a very different culture.

That smacks a little of 'well - if you do go off and marry a foreigner then what do you expect?' Not saying racist but just rather ignorant and narrow minded.

For the record, dh and I are from very different cultures, languages and countries but have more world views, moral beliefs and attitudes in common than most other couples I know.Having been with dh for over 20 years I can now feel fairly safe to say our marriage is a stable one and we have ridden through the ups and downs of children and the sort of family crises and celebrations that happen to us all without reaching any insurmountable differences in opinion. Being with someone of a different culture adds pleasue, interest and a whole new dimension to the way we look at life together.

Don't try to preach about something you clearly have very limited knowledge about.

I don't agree that it is offensive to say "I don't think I would have chosen to have a family with someone who comes from a very different culture."

She's not saying it's WRONG, just that she herself wouldn't be comfortable with it. I wouldn't be comfortable with it either. Simply because a lot of my cultural beliefs and views are pretty firmly ingrained and I would have difficulty compromising on some of them. That's not being racist or ignorant - that's simply common sense. If you and another person will not be able to come to some type of compromise about things at all - perhaps it's best NOT to get married. It all depends on the people involved.

My sister married a lovely man who comes from a very different culture than us. I love him as he is my BIL, and they have a good relationship. But some of the things he brings into the relationship would drive me up the wall. He & my sister are able to mesh their respective cultures nicely and work together on compromises, which I think is brilliant. But I think it's important to note that we are all different, and not everyone is able to to make those types of compromises. Being able to recognise that in yourself means that you are mature enough to think clearly about where the relationship is headed and what future complications it may bring. Love is great, but it really doesn't solve everything.

That being said, this is entirely irrelevant to the OPs post, as they ARE already in a firm relationship with children and this side track doesn't help the OP at all. I absolutely do not mean this to knock the OP at all. I can definitely see where she is coming from and can see how this must be extremely frustrating for her.

Thing is religous or not, people who come from a faith background are influenced in terms of culture and background. Nowt wrong with that but it's your baby and actually down to you.

It would drive me nuts.

The fact that ds isn't baptised is a great source of issue not just with ils but in dp's community and it's draining. I was even told my one person how can ds get a passport if he isn't baptised - my jaw was on the floor. I've stood fast.

You will stand fast but I'm sure the comments wont go away for a long long time.
There will come a point when you might just want to shout.

Of course your ds will learn about your dh's culture just as he'll learn about your culture, his school culture etc. Eventually.

Why should I be the only one to empathise. Those that know have shown no desire to empathise with me at all. DPs sister said I was being unfair to my partner by not having a part of my sons penis cut off. My brother could equally say the same. I dont understand why they are so keen for me to cut off a part of my little boy.

Hurting innocent babies who look to their parents to protect and never purposely cause them pain, isnt part of my culture.

And Im happy for my baby to embrace his culture. But not the bits that could kill him. I think thats fair.

beacause of their religious beliefs, thats why they are so keen.

this is an operation ehich as a baby is simple, but if he chooses to have it later on is a lot more disruptive and painful, and in the isalmic faith it is a requirement according to some before you can pray etc, so you are actually limiting the babys choice as if at the age of 14 he wants to research islam and pray or whatever and try it out he would have to first have an extremely painful operation and disrupt his schoolong and pay £500 or whatever.

Ive already said, they are not religious people and have admitted they do it for cultural reasons. Please read.

£500? Is cost really a reason to do this now, while hes a baby with no way to express his opinion? He's worth more to me than £500, thanks for your input.

And why does he need an operation to Believe. Surely faith is about his state of mind not the state of his penis.

Slighly less 'ouch' but my MIL tried to go out one afternoon to have my dd1's ears pierced when she was a few months old. Stopped by me gesticulating, then standing in her way and shouting 'no, no, no'. Now they are fine about it and it's not been mentioned at all (in their culture most baby girls have their ears pierced when babies).

As for combining cultures, this is pretty much par for the course. I'm in a two-culture marriage and it's when you rub up against these traditions, christenings/baptism, piercings/circumcision, that you realise you are not all on the same page, and whilst you might think you have similar values, these are expressed very differently. It isn't the easiest path. I agree with the person who said stick to your guns, but equally do so in a way which doesn't drive a rift if you can help it between your DH and his family, that would be a bad outcome all round.

Urgh terrible! What do you mean it's a 'cultural' thing? Is this like the shaven minge thing is everyone getting circumcised these days?

I dont really understand the cultural thing either victoria. To me its just peer pressure. Every one does it, so must I. I cant and wont give into that, especially when they employ such bullying tactics to sway me. Not one of them has given me a good reason for it, and I still havent heard one here.

YANBU - it's none of their business. Its between you and your hubby and if he's agreed to let DS choose himself that is enough.

Tell them to mind their beeswax - or effoff if you prefer.

I said quite clearly that I think there can be problems if parents come from different cultures. This is NOT the same as saying I wouldn't want to marry a foreigner. As I said people from different ethnicities can actually have very similar cultures.

I didn't say that other people from different cultures shouldn't have children. But the reality is that when people come from different cultures, and differing family expectations, this can cause real problems. And this is a problem I conciously wanted to avoid after seeing the issues it caused with other people close to me. BTW one of these was a marriage between a devout catholic and protestant - both white British, but with very different ideas around raising children.

I am slightly shocked that the OP does not seem to realise this and is instead just highly critical of her DP's family calling one a bitch and saying they are weird being interested in her son's penis.

From observation the families that seem to work in these circumstances are those where the parents try and see things from each of their extended families point of view and negotiate a way of brining up children that both parents are happy with.

I think the OP needs to think how she will deal with other issues where both her DP and extended families ideas of how to raise children may be very different from her own.

Culture just means the way of living that you were brought up to think is right. So most people on this forum believe hitting children is wrong. In some cultures, refusing to ever hit a child would be seen as spoiling them and a negative thing.

Its not just about peer pressure. You obviously believe that your child is yours and your DP's. Others believe strongly that a child belongs to the whole extended family.

You don't have to agree with your DP's family, but I think you do need to be a bit more understanding.

My OH is Nigerian and christian, circumcision is everyday practise over there and definitely done when they're babies as its a quicker and more simple procedure. Given that we subject our babies to heel pricks, multiple vaccines all within a few months of birth, not to say the circumcision is without a little pain but a bit of local anaesthetic and antibiotic powder.. job done. Also, its easier for the mother to keep clean as a baby, an older boy would forever be fiddling with it.

We have a DD of 2 and his family felt very strongly about her having her ears pierced when born. I felt it was cruel so refused but now see the logic as it would be a nightmare to have them done now, definitely easier to do it as a baby. We're expecting a boy now, I don't have any qualms with getting him circumcised, its part of his half-nigerian culture and identity... in the same way he will have to learn to speak Benin and eat pounded yam!

I think you are overreacting a little. It's not gossip but cultural expectation. My DH is a Muslim and we have talked about circumcision but so far have done nothing about it and I actually don't intend to let my DCs be circumcised unless they themselves choose to be later in life.

If I were you, I wouldn't get het up or start name calling or back biting, it will only create ill feeling between you and your DP's family. Just say "we have decided not to get him circumcised at this moment in time and we will review the situation when DS is older"..

YANBU

I'm stopping the baby from being hurt. Leslie, why do you think its ok to hurt a child if we stamp the word culture on it?

I dont like the way you keep saying 'a child belongs to...' either. Hes not a piece of property. Hes a person in his own right. His penis is his. Not mine, not his extended family's. His. He can always have it taken off if he so desires. He cant grow it back.

And even DP's family regard this woman as a bitch. Shes not on speaking terms with any of her siblings partners (4 of them)

cicumcision is not mentioned in the Quran at all.It is not something which is required. You should bring it up with your Dh's family and ask them why they celebrate Easter/Christmas. You should also tell them your son will be taught about the religion in it's true sense and not mixed up the way they choose to follow it or not.

Wow I find it interesting how everyone is quick to jump to the OP's defence (quite frankly I don't care if your kid is circumcised or not) but are also quick to tell other people that they are wrong to circumcise their sons. Isn't that kind of the pot calling the kettle black. I mean if its nobody's business but her's whether she circumcises wouldn't that be the same for everyone else?