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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In thinking my dd shouldn't still be having accidents

56 replies

TeaOneSugar · 19/02/2011 15:47

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post.

My dd, just turned 7 was a nightmare to toilet train, we tried when she was 2 and gave up because she wasn't interested, left it a while and tried again when she was approaching 3 and struggled for probably a good year.

At night she got it straight away, probably only had one wet bed, she just got straight up and used the toilet in the night not problem at all.

Anyway we eventually got there but she has continued to have more accidents than I think is acceptable, they tend to be when she's playing on her DS, or on the internet and she doesn't want to leave off what she's doing. It probably averages out at once a week, but it can sometimes be three days in a row.

My policy is that she stops doing whatever it was that she was doing at the time and doesn't do it again for the rest of the day.

There was an accident this morning and I took away the laptop and also said we wouldn't go swimming.

Am I being harsh?

Has anyone got any advice?

I don't really want to go back to a toilet training chart, but I will if it will help.

She is a very bright girl, confident and outgoing, I genuinely think she just puts off going until it's too late.

She's going away with Brownies this year and I really want to try to get this sorted before then.

OP posts:
KatyMac · 19/02/2011 16:24

How about setting an alarm to go off after 30 minutes of activity?

That way you can reward her visiting the loo when the alarm goes off rather than punishing the 'not going'

It's an easy solution, praise is always more positive than punishment; either starchart leading to reward or 2p in a jar or Marbles

MCos · 19/02/2011 16:26

I have a DD age 9 who does the same. When she is in middle of a good game, she will hold on until the very last second, so not to 'miss' anything. She is nearly 9 now, and could still have a (very) occasional accident. But when she was 7 she was still prone to accidents because of this 'holding on'. And to top it all off, when I would ask her to go to the toilet when I saw the telling signs (leg twitching, jigging about), she would argue with me that she didn't need to go! I used to end up shouting at her to get her to go (lovely, I know).

Like your daughter, there was no problem during school, at playdates/hobbies, bedtime, etc.

Once she got to about 7, I did make her help in the clean-up. Not sure if it was related to just getting older or having to help with cleanup, but shortly after that the problem started to improve.

There is only so much holding on a child can do with a really full bladder..

Punkatheart · 19/02/2011 16:28

Um..that doesn't sound a good idea. If a child associates an alarm with going to the toilet - she may wee when she hears one. A bit like Pavlov's dog.

But the positive reinforcements could work. I would have done anything for marbles at that age! But still not to make a huge fuss - just a 'well done' - and go on as if it is just part of life. Which it is....

Ozzy1 · 19/02/2011 16:29

Hi, my son is five and has started doing this recently, he was also a nightmare to potty train at first although like your daughter has never wet the bed. I completely agree with you and think it is because he is too lazy/involved in what he is doing to stop and use the loo. I did get the doctor to check for a water infection just in case and this came back clear. Tbh if it was a bladder problem she would be doing it all the time including at school, it is very difficult not to become angry with them as it is so frustrating! Im just prompting my son when i can see that he needs to go and hoping that this is a phase!

bitofalurker · 19/02/2011 16:33

Had this with dd til a few months ago - she was 6. There wasn't anything physically wrong, just as you say she held on til the last possible moment then couldn't hold on any longer. I got really fed up with people saying not to make a big deal of it etc as she couldn't help it, as I knew she could help it!

Eventually asked the hv, expecting her to say the same as everyone else - that I shouldn't push it etc - but she was really helpful, with lots of useful advice. But tbh the most helpful thing was her younger brother being incredibly easily toilet trained and her then deciding she wanted to not wet herself any more!

If you're sure that she never has a problem at school etc I'd be tempted to let her go to the brownies thing as she prob won't have a problem there either. But otoh if you think she will have a prob at brownies then maybe there's actually a medical problem. I'd go with your gut instinct on it tbh. Good luck :)

slugz · 19/02/2011 16:36

Ds had accidents till he was 11ish. We tried all sorts, until the nurse suggested cutting out blackcurrant. That was it, solved instantly, he never had an accident again.
Is it possible that she's got different drinking habits at home, which makes her more likely to have problems there? Apparently anything with tanin can be an irritant.

ChippingInFanciesCheeseOnToast · 19/02/2011 16:48

TeaOneSugar - If she isn't doing this at school & only at home when she's 'too busy' it's not going to be a medical problem.

They don't get prompted at school at all, especially not at her age - it's simply that nothing at school is as engrossing as the computer/DS etc.

I would check that she knows how to 'pause' any game she is playing and that the computer/game etc doesn't get 'taken' by anyone in the house if you are 'on a loo break'.

Then I would tell her that you are fed up of her being so naughty (shock horror - will probably get a MN lynching for using that word! & lazy and that you will not be sorting it out for her anymore.

That if it happens again she is to take a shower, put her clothes in the washing machine - check the laundry basket, bedrooms etc to see what else can go in the same wash (you can check as she brings it in), load the machine, set it etc then when it finishes hang it up (dryer whatever you do) then when it's dry (that day, next day, whenever), fold it up and put it in everyone's rooms - and of course, as you are already doing, the activity stops and she is not allowed it the next day either.

She just needs to learn that putting if off is much more hassle than just going.

Please don't get her going at certain times etc - it is really bad for your bladder/bladder control.

Rewards? Why would you set up a reward system for something a 7 year old should have been doing for years? She's being a lazy 7 year old, not a 'needs encouragement' 2/3 year old!!

Bogeyface · 19/02/2011 16:54

Totally agree Chipping.

What is it with people that they cant bear the thought of telling a child off for unacceptable behaviour and suggest counselling instead? And then wonder why kids are so bloody wet and unable to take care of themselves!

Original poster
TeaOneSugar · 19/02/2011 17:26

A bit of a mixed set of responses but a few people at least seem to think I'm going in the right direction with this.

My gut instinct is that she doesn't want to stop doing something that's fun.

chipping I'm going to give the washing her own clothes thing a go, as she is an only child I tend to do too much for her, helping her to get dressed etc, I think when you've only got one you do it because it's easier/quicker, but she needs to learn to do more herself.

I'll have a chat with her later and lay done some new rules. I'll speak to DH as well, (he's medically trained) but I suspect he'll agree with chipping and the others who have said she should be able to manage this by now.

OP posts:
Original poster
TeaOneSugar · 19/02/2011 17:27

Good to hear some other experiences, thanks everyone, it's always helpful to hear that someone else has had the same issue and that is was alright in the end.

OP posts:
twolittlemonkeys · 19/02/2011 17:31

My DS can use the toilet but gets too engrossed in things and refuses to go to the toilet if we remind him (even if it's obvious he desperately needs it). Usually his accidents are whilst playing on the laptop or DH's iPod, in which case, we do punish by removing the laptop or iPod as it's clear he's just being stubborn when we've reminded, he's refused and then had an accident.

IloveJudgeJudy · 19/02/2011 18:12

My DD was like this. It was most unpleasant and it was due merely to her not being bothered. I agree with what you're doing, OP. I would go with your gut instinct. It's usually right. You think she's just lazy and she probably is.

DD is 14 now and is fine. She was a bit like this until she was about 10! Now it's just the putting her dirty clothes in the wash basket and not just wearing them again.

YesPleaseDrChristian · 19/02/2011 19:54

If you have a doubt in your mind that it might be a physical problem then I would say speak to a GP or Incontinence Nurse about it. I was advised that they would very quickly be able to establish whether it was behavioural or physical issue or a mix of the two. The nurse may well be able to give you some strategies to try. Be it softly-softly or some tough love.

If you told her that the Brownies trip may not go ahead if she doesn't make more of an effort with keeping dry how do you think she would respond?

NorthernGobshite · 19/02/2011 19:58

I regularly wet myself up until about 10 because I was "too busy" to go to the loo and always left it too late!

I think punishing her is counterproductive and will just make her anxious about it.

chipmonkey · 19/02/2011 20:32

To me, this is a behavioural issue. If there were something physically wrong she would wet at school and at Brownies.

I don't think I would punish for wetness but what I would do is reward for dryness. E.g a gold star for each dry day and if you get a week of gold stars, then a special treat.

mumbar · 19/02/2011 20:58

I agree with chippingin. My DS has just become lazy with toileting again at 6.6yo. Rushing in doing a pee rushing out leaving dribbles on loo seat, bathroom floor and boxers. Not flushing toilet and not washing hands. And my pet hate slamming shut the door on the way out.

It has got better as I now send him back to wipe seat, mop bathroom floor, flush chain, wash hands and then go and change boxers and put damp ones in the wash. Oh he then has to wipe down every surface he's touched since leaving the bathroom without washing his hands.

Harsh? Maybe but it is pure laziness and the message that if you spent 3 minutes doing it in the first place it wouldn't take 15 minutes to sort out is sinking in. We have good and bad days but I do not make a fuss.

I agree that if it was medical it would happen everywhere. 7yo do have long periods of concentration at school and if she couldn't control it it would happen then too.

This will sound harsh again but would the threat of no brownie camp if shes not dry work?

I would maybe suggest to her the DR as if it is a genuine problem she'll be pleased to sort it out. If its not the whole idea of getting 'those parts' out for a DR may be enough to stop her?

troisgarcons · 19/02/2011 21:03

From the OP she has continued to have more accidents than I think is acceptable, they tend to be when she's playing on her DS, or on the internet and she doesn't want to leave off what she's doing.

Unplug the bloody thing and give her some attention - you might find a change in her habits.

chipmonkey · 19/02/2011 21:09

Yeah, troisgarcons, our lives would all be enriched if we shunned all twentieth century devices. Ironic that you posted that from your computer.Hmm

ChippingInFanciesCheeseOnToast · 19/02/2011 21:14

I really disagree with the concept of rewarding children for doing what they should be doing (different as encouragement for littlies learning).

She is 7. She knows when she needs to go and there needs to be a consequence to her not doing it (she has a shower, she washes, dries and puts away the dirtied clothes (why should her Mum??) and she stops playing whatever she is playing. It's not a punishment - it's a consequence.

There is NO need for her to get 'anxious' about it! She can and does do this when she is out of the house.

So - if you 'reward' her for being 'dry' she knows all she has to do it play up about something for a while, then she will get an incentive to behave herself?? I really fail to see how this is a good idea.

chipmonkey · 19/02/2011 21:24

I think you are overthinking it, Chipping. I wouldn't reward her for ever, just till she gets into the good habit of running to the loo whenever she want to go.

mumbar · 19/02/2011 21:31

I agree with the reward being unecessary. I have never felt comfortable for rewarding children for something they should be doing (obv if they can)

I think it creates a generation of who people who expect reward for living.

LessNarkyPuffin · 19/02/2011 21:42

Don't panic. You've got a lot of responses from people who haven't bothered to read your post properly.

If she's dry at night every night and has been for years and at school and wets at home when she's busy playing games it's not medical it's her not wanting to go to the loo and stop what she's doing.

YesPleaseDrChristian · 19/02/2011 22:13

I also agree that rewards for dryness should not be used.

Neither should punishments for wetness.

Being dry has got to be self-motivated IMHO.

Interesting comment OP made about DC not being very independent, eg helping her get dressed. I have been up until very recently helping my 4yo get dressed when I thought to myself why the hell am I doing this? Bar buttons down the dress or similar she can manage this perfectly well. Perhaps look for opportunities for your DD to be more independent?

chipmonkey · 20/02/2011 01:22

We are talking about a 7 year old girl, though, not a teenager. I have, in my vast Wink experience, gotten great results by dangling carrots and my children don't appear to have a greater sense of entitlement than their peers.

chipmonkey · 20/02/2011 01:25

We are talking about a 7 year old girl, though, not a teenager. I have, in my vast Wink experience, gotten great results by dangling carrots and my children don't appear to have a greater sense of entitlement than their peers.

And how can you make her self-motivated about something like this when she clearly couldn't be bothered if left to her own devices? External motivation needs to be introduced IMO.