To think that all Tory voters should become volunteers

[donkeyderby]

Give over your jobs to those who didn't vote for this bunch of monkeys, and run our libraries or feed our old people - for nothing.

ScramVonChubby - No, I wasn't clear in my earlier response...I meant, the prudence you display domestically should be followed nationally also - hence the need to cut spending.

Not that overall spending is being cut, of course - public spending will still be £90bn higher at the end of this parliament than it was at the start

You see I disagree.

I beleive if we all become as prudent as we can be eprsonally nationalm spending will drop anyway, but that national spending should never be cut in a way that disadvanatges the most vulnerable.

youa sked why I think that earlier- I am not meeting-active but I have a Quaker faith. It informs my approach to life hugely.

Ah you see LeQ that is an assumtion anyone not liking tory policy on Big Society automatically votes labour.

Clearly wrong, of course. for a start I know a fair few tories whoa re bemused by it all.

I am genuinely confused.

I admit I am a labour voter and am not erm keen on the Tories. That out of the way.

This is what I understand. I am happy to be informed. Dont slag me off, I am not trying to make a point,I am being genuine.

OK.

Public sector jobs are being cut. One in eight is the latest estimate. These jobs tend to be in the areas of social care, civic lesuire (libraries etc).

Many people are going to be out of work.

There are going to be less jobs.

Services are being cut to only statutory (child protection etc).

Funding to charities is also being cut/is harder to get.

The tories want those that have been made redundant from the public sector to now become volunteers to run the new big society. I.e. doing their old jobs for nothing.

Charities will now be able to apply for funding in the form of loans (with interest).

They will also be run by volunteers.

I cannot understand how it will work. I do not understand how services for disabled children (for eg) will survive. Why get rid of someone with years of experience and replace them with a non paid person who might just fancy working with kids?

This may sound a bit muddled but TBH thats how I feel. I do not understand how it is all going to work.

If we were not in a recession, perhaps. But now?

for fucks sake the real reason this country is in pieces is because we had new labour (right wong labour) after a disasterous tory gov who sold off all the profitable stateowned industries.

every time the tories get into power it takes 20 years for things to start to improve again after they ruin the country. Im really starting to wonder if the tories actually just hate people and want to see pain and suffering.

they make me feel quite sick.

I am a green voter and I volunteer

I did vote Tory and always have, my two best frineds voted labour and Lib Dem, we all send our kids to a prep school and all our kids in year 6 have sat the Grammar School entrance. To be honest if they had not mentioned it in passing conversation I would never have guessed...
Funny that their politics doesn't apply to their kids.By the way they are the nicest people I have ever met.
On the other hand my brother in law is a stereotypical jaguar driving tory and complete w**ker by the way.

KnittedBreast - "a disasterous tory gov who sold off all the profitable stateowned industries"

A sure contender for the funniest thing ever typed on MN!!!

Demonstrates such a lack of understanding of the privatisation process - rationale, pros and cons etc.

Do you really think politicians should decide British Airways' destinations? Or BT's business plan? Or the design of the next Rolls Royce?

LeQueen - rubbish, the debt ratio was much higher after the 2nd world war. Neither Attlee nor Churchill reacted to them in the way the current govt are.
In real terms this is not a unique, nor a disastrous situation.
There is no evidence that the international bond market has reacted against UK debt.

If it were a disaster, there are other things that could be / have been done.

• what about a capital levy - a one-off wealth tax to be gathered in non-recurrent fiscal crises from the banks and those with the ?broadest shoulders? more generally. (as was discussed by Lloyd George?s coalition government after the First World War - not actually done, because even then it wasn't that bad. we could consider that, but public spending is being attacked instead for ideological reasons. And - another reason more imaginative solutions to this over-dramatised problem are not being considered - it's just not that bad.

what exactly do you mean, "worst financial debt in recorded history?" (And what is the word "financial" even doing in that sentence - as opposed to what, a debt of gratitude? A moral debt?) You mean in world history? Hardly. In UK's history? Not in real terms. Whose numbers are you referring to here and what do they mean?

But there are some things that should be state-owned that they sold off and it has turned into an absolute disaster - have you ever used public transport in this country? I do, every bloody day and it's a fucking disgrace. I've used public transport in many other countries as well, where it's state owned and run as a public service, and it is much cheaper, more efficient and generally better.

As I've said before, in relation to the economic mess of this country - 2008 TO 2009 WAS THE WORST GLOBAL RECESSION since the 1930s. Very, very few countries escaped unscathed. I hardly think the Global economic recession was Labour's fault. Not entirely.

the international bond market has not reacted against UK gilts as the market is confident in the steps the current government is taking to cut the deficit .. however, had the cuts not been made, we would have a very different scenario in the gilt market ... look at Greek bonds for instance for an example ...

thanks, vezzie.

wish they'd teach people properly at school, then we wouldn't have to listen to all the red top bollocks.

Not the same as Greece - Greece had cooked the books and was struggling with serious short term debt - UK debt is on time scales that allow for gradual reduction over time. This could have been dealt with by adjusted tax revenues, modest reductions in new spending, inflation, and economic recovery.

In terms of economic recovery, we're fucked now, for the forseeable. The govt estimates that 500 000 local govt employees will lose their jobs. Then there are all the other job losses in the various companies touched by the knock-on effects: charities, contractors who work for effected organisations, etc. then there is the impact on retail, consumer spending etc, and tax revenue. There is no way the private sector is going to mop up that many job losses. I don't know any company that is hiring, even replacing staff who are resigning. Even if people could just pick up and move to where there are jobs (they can't), there are not in total enough jobs in the UK to put all those people made redundant back into work and the effect of this on the economy is going to be a huge stagnant disaster.

Cutting this hard, this deep and this fast is ideologically motivated; but economically indefensible.

AbsDu - Labour arent to blame for the recession. Obviously. What they are to be blamed for is spending all the cash on the usual Labour wastes and not saving any for a rainy day. And right now its pissing it down. No-one expects to escape unscathed, or not in some debt. But the debt is massive. And as for comparing us to the economies of Ireland etc is ridiculous
Vezzie - the debt was higher after WW2 you are correct, but my understanding is the defecit ratio is comparable now. And it took until 2002 to pay that back. Thats one hell of a Labour spending spree in 8 years to get us back to that level of debt

Mamababa - I wouldn't argue that there wasn't a problem, or that nothing needed to be done (as I said, there are various solutions that could be considered). I do, however, think that the problem has been hugely overdramatised as an excuse for an overdramatic "solution". and as you say, the pointing-the-finger-at-labour for a global financial crisis is just silly. If I were Gordon Brown I would feel enormously flattered that people thought I had so much influence. Over the whole world.

What I completely fail to understand is whether / why / how this govt are ok with the inevitable appalling effects on the economy that this crazy cutting will cause. I find myself thinking that they are probably just young and stupid. And posh. (not that I have anything against the young or the posh - and even the stupid can't help it - but I don't think they are qualifications for running the country)

What is most disgusting about all this on an emotional level is the ravaging of communities overnight, making them into job-deserts, at the same time as the ever dribbling, hate-filled discourse of blame and contempt for the jobless. It really stinks.

vezzie - I'd calm down if I were you.

Public spending is not being cut.

It will be higher in 2015 than it is now.

See the Govt's own figures here (copied below):

Table 1: Summary of the Budget policy decisions
£ million
2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15
Total tax policy decisions +2,830 +6,255 +6,950 +8,515 +8,230
Spending measures announced at this Budget
Changes to current spending +3,465 +6,835 +15,230 +21,700 +29,780
Changes to capital spending +1,780 +2,020 +2,070 +2,120 +2,160
Total spending policy decisions +5,245 +8,855 +17,300 +23,820 +31,940
Of which specific welfare measures +385 +2,010 +4,710 +8,150 +11,040
TOTAL POLICY DECISIONS +8,075 +15,110 +24,250 +32,335 +40,170
Memo: debt interest savings as a result of
policy decisions in spending review period ? ?820 +1,030 +1,810 +3,020
Memo: total policy decisions excluding
debt interest savings +8,075 +15,930 +23,220 +30,525 +37,150

See the Govt's own figures here (copied below):

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You sound like a patronising twat, nosuch.

And I have noticed a couple of Tories stating on teh news recently that public spending is actually going up which just sound s like meaningless platitudes. It's going up but we deperately need to make cuts? How's that? Or it's remaining static for now but inflation is still heading upwards. So it's not actually going up then, is it?

And this tired, tired old comment that is now churned out as mantra that Labour left us with the worst mess Ever. It is so highly debatable that it is meaningless too.

pointydog - you sound like a charmer yourself

Didn't think you'd understand!!

Vezzie - brilliant posts.

Vezzie - good economic assessment.

and Yes public spending probably (certainly) will go up because tory policies are plunging us back into recession, and higher unemployment costs, as demostrated by the latest figures that show the economy has shrunk by 0.5% (after greater than expected growth under Labours policies).

In fact, in the Labour years, welfare spending increased at a slower rate than previous conservative years of government.

I wish Tories would listen to the people who know what they are talking about - the economists!! I have heard nothing but warnings about how these policies will plunge us back into recession and now it is happening gah!

I do find it when Conservatives rant about Blair and Brown taking us into Iraq. The Tories would have done the same. Even Conservative politicians dont use that argument against Labour because they know they dont have a leg to stand on in that regard.

Jjkm - I believe that it's the job of the state to train and employ professional staff to care for those who need it, funded by tax revenue. Or, where the best care is provided by parents or family members, then the state should be supporting those carers appropriately. It isn't right to expect those who need care within our society to rely on potentially untrained, unqualified volunteers.