to hate it when people talk about "indie" schools

[gobehindabushfgs]

in an attempt to make it sound cool, edgy and alternative? it isn't. it's private education. it's a right-wing, ultimately selfish decision.

"indie"

Are you sure SC? I found this from last year.

The first well-known test case was Manchester Grammar School. Like many illustrious schools, it started out as a charity. In its case it was founded by the Bishop of Exeter in 1515.

Today it educates almost 1,500 non-boarding pupils, who pay fees of almost £9,000 a year. The school provides bursaries to 14% of its pupils while 8% of all pupils pay no fees at all.

The school also shares sports facilities with other local schools and puts on lectures and poetry workshops, and provides pre-university coaching for pupils from other schools. The emphasis is on sharing with others some of the real benefits its own pupils receive.

As such Manchester Grammar is, in the words of the assessors, "a charity and is operating for the public benefit".

Oh xposts Grimma!

At least its easy to refute misinformation nowadays.

"Much as MGS is being held up as a paragon of virtue, may I just remind you it's recently lost it's charitable status?"

Really, do you have a link for that? Since they were assessed and judged that they qualified for charitable status in 2009, have they been assessed again?

manicbmc "So is it 'Indie' in a Beggars Banquet way? Or is it in a Temple of Doom way?"

I am so signing the DSs up for an Indi school. I want to go on the day trips!

I kind of agree wit the OP and I speak as someone who used a private school in the UK, I do think is is a way to make it sound a bit trendier.

I just went for 'Private' school because the 'Public' thing confused me because here, public means state.

DS is now at a state school here in Australia and TBH he is quite a bit ahead of the other kids acedemically, but I assume, they will catch up and he will slow down as he finds out about the better things to do.

BettyDouglas Wed 16-Feb-11 19:18:41
Sorry, Theposieparker.

you're not the first to make that mistake but the first to correct yourself.....woo hoo.

BettyD, you have been fab on this thread.

Can I just say about the money thing that at primary level the fees for one child are the same as nursery fees - in fact they can even be less, a lot of people look at what they have got used to paying and are amazed that actually they can just carry on and send their dc to a prep school iyswim.

But that just outlines the differences between London and the rest of the country which is why these threads are difficult - what it means and costs to send dc to a private school in other areas of the country dont apply in London.

Anyway what I mean is that it can drag in 2 income households who wouldnt have even considered it before.

Oops sorry, I was in a bad temper anyway, and I was getting to boiling point reading this thread! I posted without checking (should have learnt not to do that by now )

I knew it was told it had to do more with schools from the area, but I thought it had refused.

I'm always a bit snippy about MGS though, because (I was at a private girls' school nearby) the boys were incredibly stuck-up. It never sits well with me when people say there are lots of different backgrounds etc. because they seem just teach them all that they're better than everyone else (just IME though)

Imagine 2 schools in a local area:

School A - "We follow a traditional curriculum and teaching methods. Children are pushed to achieve, are streamed by ability, sit in rows, make notes, and sit frequent tests."

School B - "We allow pupils to work at their own pace in a mixed ability classes. Our teaching is interactive, we teach using a variety of learning styles and we never sit tests, they are far too stressful."

My bet is that school A would be heavily oversubscribed. But we don't want the parents to have a say in actual teaching do we?!

Yes please - where do I sign for places for my DC at school A?

Alas, candleshoe, such schools are fewer and farther between, unless one has the money to go private.

Hopefully, the recent 'free schools' initiative will allow such ideas and values to return to state-run education.

I taught in a lovely old fashined prep school where the fees were less than the average day nursery. Kids had little wooden desks, the kids wore caps and blazers and there were only 16 max in a class. Heaven to teach in. Tragically closed in 2001.

Am I the only person wondering if the OP actually HAS children?

Because from what I've read so far it sounds like the spouting off of someone only thinking highly theoretically about what they would do IF they were a parent. Not someone who has dealt with the vagaries of getting their kids in somewhere, the total arbitrariness of the state system, the inconsistences, the imperfections etc, And that's just schools. Difficult to cling hard and to a fixed ideology when dealing with the day to day delimmas of wanting what YOU THINK is the best for your children - or understanding why others might.

So bloody judgey, it really makes me angry.

Um, yes, I have two children, one with SN

I am more than familiar with the "vagaries" of dealing with schools and all their imperfections, inconsistencies and unfairnesses

coupled with the added complexity of dealing with consultants, ed psychs, speech therapists and the wonderful world of school SENCos

it hasn't impacted on my basic principles though, although I have certainly fought for what I believe is best for my children, and other people's children, and society at large

rather a bizarre assumption on your part, Harriet

I wonder, internship type jobs aside (which are a little like spoonfeeding also), whether state school kids actually make better employees....have more diverse thinking and better work ethic....or is everyone equal come the end of Uni?

Not in the higher education sector. It's mainly independent school ex-pupils who run universities, or at least highly selective grammar school ex-pupils. There seems to be quite a lot of social conscience combined with a willingness to do beyond the strict definition of the job (work evenings and weekends and so on, stay in touch with alumni for a long time, take the pastoral care very seriously, etc).

It was the same in journalism as well - a lot of people got into more interesting jobs via sub-editing routes and things like that, for which you needed excellent spelling, grammar, general knowledge, common sense, and an ability to sit for hours scrutinising things. The comprehensive school people seemed to fall by the wayside a bit when I was doing it. Unfortunate, as they probably had the ability to succeed at the higher levels, but didn't have a mechanism to get there. A caveat would be that comprehensive schools are a lot better now than they were in the 1980s/1990s so the same might not apply now.

Boffin....But Uni is a bit like school isn't it? I met some lecturers along the way who never had a 'real' job. Not that they weren't extraordinary and bright, but no experience outside of academia....bit like banking, PWC type jobs, all seem to be a bit like school? Perhaps I'm wrong.

"I have certainly fought for what I believe is best for my children, and other people's children, and society at large"

Very lofty and high-minded, gobehindabush.

But: sometimes - often - what's best for your own children isn't what's best for other people's. How very lucky you are if catering for your individual child's needs happens to have a positive effect on everyone else's children.

And it's actually quite irksome to hear you saying that you've fought for what you believe is best for my children. You haven't. You can have a basic principle of state education for all, come what may - but that doesn't mean it's the best thing for every child in the country. It's just what you happen to believe.

You are also contradicting yourself. You say you wouldn't pay fees (fair enough) or move to a 'good' catchment area (fair enough). So in what way exactly have you fought for what you believe is best for your children? Or do you believe that an average education is best for them, as it ties in with your principles? Again, there's nothing wrong with this, if that's your stance - but don't try to make out that you're doing it for the good of society and everybody else's children. You're ultimately doing it for yourself, and any possible side effect on other people is just that: a side effect.

I just hope the other pupils in the op's school are bleddy grateful...what with all the shiney high minded support she's giving by being there.