In feeling exasperation at parents at playgroup who do nothing about their very boisterous kids?

[Longstocking2]

I go to a lovely playgroup but there are 4 or 5 mothers with 3 yr old boys who seem incapable of intervention or telling their boys off. However much the boys hit other kids, or push them or generally hurt them these women respond with lame sort of shruggy helplessness and a weak sort of whiney "Oh DAHling please don't do that".
And it's so weakly done, and you can see the child feels no consequence has occurred. Sometimes said Bint will kneel down and talk quietly with mean offspring during which child appears to take nothing in.

These mothers are usually very middle class and almost find this behaviour a bit adorable. Certainly they don't seem to have any methodology of discipline. I find it so weird. They have to learn how to behave don't they?

gobehind I am genuinely chastened, and glad you let me know, I'd hate to be using it and not realising it. Really, I appreciate it, mumsnet does consistently educate me to stop being a prejudiced ranting offensive harridan.

Apologies all round, all blessing heaped upon all heads!

all 5 of mine have moved out of the baby environment at just before 3,longstocking......efinitely need more space/challenges/room than the baby groups can offer.....and being pulled up on boisterous behaviour by trained staff has always worked well i have found....these indulgent mothers need to be firmer!!

I find the playgroups where chavs go far more offensive. Last time I went, some oik poured a fruit shoot all down peregrines lovely new ralph lauren sweater.

Middle class indeed, what a load of utter bollocks. Badly behaved children and parents with no disciplining skills reach across all social classes.

Longstocking you've been given a bit of a hard time on this thread, but I agree with your main point in that some mothers just don't see anything wrong in their child attacking others.

The problem then continues into school where the school tries to contain it but if it's not backed up at home then the child doesn't know right from wrong.

I speak from experience as there is a group of boys at my DS2's school, who obviously play at each other's houses outside school and are allowed to punch/kick each other and they don't mind. Boys being boys.
However, when these boys do it to other children not in the gang the mother's roll their eyes as if to say 'your child is a bit of a wimp'.

It's a big problem and several children have left because of it and I know of one boy who's parents are removing him this year. The parents of the bullys don't ever do anything. I overheard a few of the mums at a party discussing how often they were called by the school, more eye rolling and laughing.

Longstocking2 , No worries. As I said any opinions/advice welcomed. Well I'm braving Playgroup tomoz so wish me luck. Lol!

dolly, that sounds bad, I mean if they can be potty trained they can learn not to hit can't they?

Longstocking I don't blame the children at all, it's their parents who aren't teaching them it's wrong. No matter how much the school does, it's just containing it if the parents won't back this up.

I took my son to karate in the end, not to learn how to fight, but to give him the confidence to at least think he might stand a chance if he did. They don't pick on him now, and he's not afraid to stick up for himself, but I would move him if it became a problem again.

My dd doesn't hit other kids out of nastiness, but she's not good at sharing (she's 2). I am so very conscious of appearing a 'good parent' & trying to tell her when she does something socially unacceptable, but tbh she doesn't listen or take any notice & in the end I might sometimes ignore what's going on for the sake of 5 minutes having a hot drink & an adult conversation. The OP post about the bints who lean down and whisper quietly to their offspring (clearly having no effect) really upset me as I'm aware that's what it looks like, but the alternative would be a smack or shouting, & that wouldn't be right either I'm sure. So I don't go to playgroups anymore. Because of judgemental mummies like you .

Yanbu OP.

I'm sure DS will be a hitter, but I got really fed up at playgroup last time I went when a boy kept following him and hitting him and taking everything he played with. In the end I had to physically stop him whacking DS on the head. Again. his carer shrugged.

Also he came back from soft play with two scratches by his eye where a girl had grabbed his face. WTF?!

I'm putting DS in preschool from 3 as hopefully he'll be safer in a more structured environment.

That mum could have been me last year. Going through a separation, working evenings and nights (often past midnight), stressed about money and getting up at 5.30am to look after a boisterous toddler without a break. Oh yes, and said toddler was still waking 2-3 times per night so hideously sleep-deprived. Playgroup was the only time I got to sit down for an hour, drink a cup of tea and have a little adult company. So, yes, I probably didn't shadow my DS's every move or take him home the moment he stepped out of line. Shoot me.

Things aren't always as they seem. Thankfully, the mums at my playgroup weren't as judgmental as you.

I've suffered and still am from sleep deprivation. I'd still stop DS from hitting someone continusouly.

Well, yes if DS hit someone continuously I'd deal with it (we have been known to leave early when he won't play nicely) - or hope that if I missed it and another mum spotted it, they would. There is, or should be, an element of collective responsibility at playgroups, I would have thought. But the OP didn't specify continuously anyway.

It comes across as a bit of a judgey rant about middle-class mums. I wonder if the OP is a helicopter parent?

Sorry, that sounds as if I think hitting is OK. It isn't.

But I know that at the playgroups I have been to, all is not what is seems with some mums. Difficult divorces, PND, special needs, elderly parents - there are all sorts of reasons why sometimes a playgroup is as much for the mum's sanity as for the children. And if the mums feel like their children have to be on best behaviour at playgroup then it just becomes too much of an effort. Which is a real danger because the groups might be the only contact they have with the world on a regular basis and are a great opportunity for mutual support.

Yes I agree Scroobius about the continuous point. I also don't see what class has to do with it.

it's a shame that the OP mentioned class in her first post because the problem she describes has nothing to do it.

I'm not judgemental, we all accept that children are boisterous and go over the top. They aren't born knowing that this isn't acceptable behaviour unless it's pointed out to them, continuously. That's my job as a parent to teach my boys how to behave - if I don't I'm going to have a very tough time when they're teenagers.

Can't believe all the people getting het up about the OP's post. Do you all think it is acceptable for kids to deliberately hurt other children and for whoever is looking after them to do nothing. Or half-heartedly tell them to stop it while letting them do it again and again! DD has never hit another child (nothing I've done, just luck I guess) but if she did she would be made to apologise, given one warning and then taken home if it happens again. If all parents did this there would be a lot less hitting in playgroups. And I mean if parents actually followed through on it not just saying 15 times "if you do that again we're going home!" which I hear a lot - what is that teaching them?

in that case i intervene and hover until said child buggers off to torture some other poor kid.

and i'm middle class. probably upper middle class tho which is why i'm a little more disapproving.

willieversleepagain- I'm sorry you are having a rough time but it is unacceptable to ignore your child hitting another for 5 min to have a cup of tea.

If it really is too much for you to intervene then I agree playgroup with all shared toys may not be a great idea right now. Maybe a baby music group/tumble tots/messy monsters type activity where it is more structured and each child is playing parallel and not needing to share as much would be better. These can be £££ but sometimes much cheaper/free versions run at childrens centres.

Alternatively remove your child repeatedly from the situation every time they hit/push. You can call it a naughty spot/corner/wall or time out or thinking chair whatever it is basically the same technique. This is the sensible alternative to hitting or shouting. It is repetitive and frustrating but it is eventually effective.