In feeling exasperation at parents at playgroup who do nothing about their very boisterous kids?

[Longstocking2]

I go to a lovely playgroup but there are 4 or 5 mothers with 3 yr old boys who seem incapable of intervention or telling their boys off. However much the boys hit other kids, or push them or generally hurt them these women respond with lame sort of shruggy helplessness and a weak sort of whiney "Oh DAHling please don't do that".
And it's so weakly done, and you can see the child feels no consequence has occurred. Sometimes said Bint will kneel down and talk quietly with mean offspring during which child appears to take nothing in.

These mothers are usually very middle class and almost find this behaviour a bit adorable. Certainly they don't seem to have any methodology of discipline. I find it so weird. They have to learn how to behave don't they?

See, I have a boisterous boy and am absolutely on top of him when he's going overboard. As a result I also have no qualms about speaking to other people's children (and the parents) if they're not dealing with their own child's wild behaviour themselves. I will not have my own child hurting another, and I will not stand by and let any child hurt another.

Some 3 year olds really do not respond to discipline. It takes a very very long time to get the message through. If you have one of these - a biter, or a kicker who is fearless of the consequences - then there comes a point when you probably are better off not taking them to toddler groups and playgroups any more as you cannot be on their case all the time. I am sure it must have been hard for you brokeoven, because some days God knows when you are at home with a toddler you are desperate for some adult company, but I think it was still the right thing to do. Not fair for other children to be physically hurt by others on a regular basis.

Can't find any racism in derivation of the word 'bint'.

Can't have mumsnet being so politically correct I can't call a fellow sister a bint now and then surely?

of course, i too have been on the end of a child walloping my son, i could have cried.

But becuase my son went through this phase, i felt some understanding and didnt label them as lower classed or similar.

I was mortified and horrified unable to understand where the behaviour came from because he never saw it that i was aware of anywhere.
As i say, he is now a 7 year old who wouldnt dream of hitting out.

Hate to say it, but it doesnt end at toddler group, when they get to school they wil experience this too, only you wont be there to rescue them, now THATS very hard to deal with

While I think you are right to not be happy about parents who do not say anything to their dcs when they hurt someone else, I think you are being a bit unfair with this comment:"Sometimes said Bint will kneel down and talk quietly with mean offspring during which child appears to take nothing in."

What is the best way to deal with it? or rather how would you like it to be dealt with? as you make it appear you would have a much better way

Hi there, I happened to look in on this chat as I am mum to a happy, loving but boisterous 2yr boy. He has alaways been great mixing with others, children and adults alike up untill a few months ago when he started hitting everybody!!

Sometimes for no apparent reason but mostly when he wants to play with something , is frustrated etc.
I am finding it quite upsetting as I don't know what the best way to handle this is. He knows to say sorry when he has hurt some one and almost always does. I remove him from the situation as soon as he does it. Ignore him if he does it to me, make a fuss of the person he's hurt. Shout no, be firm, everything I have been advised to do.

I find that I am no frightened to take him to any play groups etc as I have to follow him round constantly watching his every move incase he 'turns'.

BTW I am also mum to a 12 yr old DD, who was never like this!!

Any advice welcomed please.

"bint" is Arabic for "daughter" and was adopted as an insult by British servicemen in the Middle East from the 1850s

it is now only used as a pejorative term and is widley regarded as racist in origin

but given that your reaction to being picked up on it was to bleat about "political correctness", I won't expect a cogent response from you

I'm with the OP. She's talking about parents who seem to deliberately and willfuly ignore their child, who hurts other children, seemingly for fun.

Horrible for everyone, no doubt also for the mother of the child doing the hurting (biting, pushing, whatever), but if that parent doesn't make any effort to help her or his child understand that they should play nicely, that is annoying, imo.

Those of you insinuating that parents who feel like this have wimpy or over-protected children, I disagree, and suspect you might be part of the problem / unwilling to admit that you might be raising little bullies too. I was at a playgroup recently where a 2 year old girl standing in the middle of the room minding her own business was pulled to the floor by her hood by an out-of control 3 year old, she smashed her head hard on the wooden floor and howled for some time, the mother of the boy (who had seen it all) just turned back to her group of friends and continued her conversation.

I stopped taking my DD to one playgroup mostly due to the problems caused by one overly boisterous child. His Mum did her best to discipline him, but his behaviour was just consistently awful to be around.
So I don't think YABU to be irritated by badly behaved children when they are being ineffectively parented.
I have some sympathy with parents who have kids who are a handful, but not a great deal if it ends up with mine getting thumped, scratched or bitten...

well I don't mean to be lacking in compassion for any mother who cares. The mothers I'm talking about really do appear to NOT care. They are drinking coffee and chatting and then not doing anything when child hurts another.

I know we all need social interaction. But I think we need to be really responsible for our kids at this lashing out stage.

I think the only way to address it (from what childminders have told me, I really respect their advice) is for the child to have an immediate consequence. So out of the play space, 3 mins time out. A lot of kids will get the message, it's really really really hard work but it will work in most cases. I spend a lot of time with childminders and their kids don't seem to hit at all! They just learn the rules and keep to them. Not saying it's easy and this obviously does not apply to children with behavioural issues, and I don't mean to offend anyone on that count.

Rachy, I think people understand that children go through this stage, and it sounds like you are doing all you can! The behaviour is something that children can be trained or grow out of, it is the ignoring or denial of the behaviour that is annoying or upsetting to other parents. A 'sorry' to the child who has been hurt and some sort of discipline for the child who has hurt them is all that is needed, I think.

Tbh when my son was a hitting 2 or 3 year old the only thing that worked was just to take him home. Boring but true

Barmbrack that is terrible. I'm not talking about that sort of behaviour, really, no one could condone that.

longstocking.....i know the kind you mean!! the untouchables!

and at 3 they should really be moving out of the toddler group environment and into something with more structure.....away from the indulgent mummy!

"and at 3 they should really be moving out of the toddler group environment and into something with more structure.....away from the indulgent mummy!"

what?!?!?

utter, utter bilge.

I didn't know that about "bint"

Not that I ever used it, it sounds a bit "monty python" to me.

I have nothing but sympathy for the frazzled parents of some DCs who are rampaging through their toddler-terror phase, and who are clearly worn to a shred trying to stop their DC inadvertently hurting another DC or treading on a baby at playgroup.

However I do recognise another sort of parents, who strike me as the ones who are starting to realise their Little Darling is not as universally popular as they thought, and idly pick up a parenting manual. They read "ignore the bad behaviour and praise the good" and think "Ah! That's the advice for ME" and enthusiastically put it into practice. They are the ones in the next room drinking coffee while Little Darling terrorises everyone, only reacting to praise praise PRAISE: "What a wonderful Half-Nelson Sweetheart, you must show Daddy when he gets home."

rachy I think at this stage, imo, we have to stay pretty close to a child at this stage, not hanging over them literally, but close enough to know what they're doing. Ime kids like usually save the lashings for when mother is not giving them any attention at all. It's one of the great sorrows of parenting that when you most need social interaction, your child needs your full attention. That's why we all need more help with our kids and more time off, not possible though for many of us. Caring for kids is hard hard work in my opinion unless you have a fab mother down the road with time, or fab family and friends. Many of us don't.

Well, gobehind I saw that and wasn't aware of that history, it's a shame because when I was growing up women used it happily about each other with no racist intent, sometimes about an eejit and sometimes about oneself. But fair enough, hands up, I withdraw this offensive word and apologise.

Thanks, I will just have to stick with it and try and put a stop to it. Just feel like you are being judged all the time.

er,so what age do you think they need to be at theswe baby groups til????

(op,by 'playgroup' i imagine you meant toddler type groups as you mention babies???)

Dare I say, running around outside in a wider space and with fewer people can work better for some very physical and energetic children.

different playgroups have different target ages and different purposes

but your assertion that 3yo need to be in a more "structured" environment, away from their mothers - well that is utter tripe IMO

Tiffany, I think there's a point where boys at playgroups do seem to 'grow out' of it and want a change, sometimes the naughtiness might coincide with this time too.

I noticed my ds and his friends just had enough of playgroup somewhere between 3 and 4 and want to be doing other more energetic things. Obviously this depends on the child and the playgroup.

I do realise how annoying it is to have someone popping up on a thread and moaning about the use of one word, btw

I don't do it to irritate - but I think it is necessary to challenge casual racist remarks where they crop up - if people realise what they are saying, they might stop saying it

sorry if I pissed you off with that.

Fortunately I manage to give him lots of attention, get lots of time off , family are all great etc. I take him to play group so he can socialize and interact, so he's not always with me.. can't win!

Rachy I'm very sorry if I was rude to you at all. I don't mean it. I don't mean the mothers who mind at all, it's the mothers who don't even seem to care about the ones who are walloped that I find odd.
Big hugs to you rach, parenting can be brutally hard ime and imo and how well we do often relates to how much support we get. So I don't want to undermine you here!