to be sitting on the fence with regards to the sterilisation of this lady with learning disabilites

[tomhardyismydh]

My ethical judgment tells me this is very wrong, but my moral and practical understanding of this situation tells me it maybe in her best interest.

what are others views, wishing not for this thread to turn out to be a bun fight.

Im thinking about the absolute rights of this woman and any further children she may have.

"If someone has such severe learning difficulties that they aren't ever going to be able to care for a child and are incapable of using contraception, who are you protecting by not sterilising them"

What about the alcoholics, drug users, women married to violent men, people from dreaful home environments who aren't ever going to be able to care for a child and keep having babies who are taken into care? Should they be sterilised as well?

I suspect it wouldn't because the grandparents have taken the previous child and will take this one
I wonder if it would have if social services had had to place them? I don't know. I've seen lots of cases with women of low intelligence having 6, 7, 8 children forcibly adopted because they couldn't care for them but they haven't had such low capacity that they have been unable to understand what has been happening.

I suspect the council wouldn't take proceedings like this because of the issues discussed in this thread

however if this case ends in sterilisation, perhaps they would and I suppose that is part of what fucker is worried about

viva, all those people have potential for rehabilitation and with support can be good parents.

alcoholics and drug users can go to rehab, battered wives can divorce and people can get therapy to help change. Unless you can tell me how a woman with the mental age of a small child can suddenly get better, how about you withdraw such a ridiculous analogy and get back to the actual matter at hand?

If the woman in the article has a severe learning disability then that means that she has an IQ between 20-34 (where an IQ below 70 is the cut-off for having a learning disability).

OhForFuckersSake Any assesment would involve speaking to the person concerned, not just their relatives, so if for some reason the family were just making it up it would become very apparent!

actually just read the independent article and it says the local authority has brought the case
but with the parents approval
so that's interesting

gosh that is incredibly low

as i said earlier evis, many people with LDs find it difficult to communicate effectively, especially to those who aren't familiar to them.

yes that must be the case fucker, of course
v difficult
(I keep repeating that, sorry)

The decision has been delayed till April. When further evidence will be shown to the court, so a more informed decision can be made.

that's interesting
who is hearing it?

BTW, can i just make it clear that i am not saying it is wrong for this girl. i dont know enough about her case, nor am i qualified enough to know what is right for her. i am just voicing my concerns about what the decision for her could mean for others.

yup, got that fucker
and completely right to consider those concerns, the judge will have to too
i'm just debating it with you (and enjoying it)

it doesn't feel right being called fucker, feel like I'm masquerading as herself think I'll namechange back!!

oh sorry I thought you were her AFTER the namechange!!!

blimey

Who ARE you, you dastardly imposter?

booyhoo

no I was being nice because of your own nice self

honest

I barely know AF, I haven't been on here much for years. but I read her namechanging thread!

haha, nice and me aren't often see in the same post, i will hold onto that and quote it fpr aslong as possible!!

ok maybe you are a complete bitch

but I have enjoyed our chat

I'm not i promise, I'm just misunderstood!

If she is sufficiently LD, shouldn't she be under sufficient care and supervision to provide mandatory monitorable pill contraception ?

And why in fact was this not occurring at the very least after her 1st child if not before ?

i thought sterilisation during CS wasn't recommended because of high failure rates?

her mother is meant to look after her, her two children, ^and6 make sure she takes the pill everyday without fail as well, even if she doesn't want too? Perhaps she could take up juggling and climb everest as well?

As a sister of someone with severe learning difficulties I can totally empathise with the wishes of this woman's parents. My experience of social workers has not been good and I can recall only one SW who actually listened to my family's concerns and wishes. The PC brigade who believe everyone has a right to this and that should try to live with someone with LD before they make decisions.

My sister was placed into an 'independent living' house with 4 other ladies with similar problems and she was moved from her long term placement. When I was asked my permission and I did not feel it would benefit my sister the SW asked me if I loved her because if I did I would agree with the move!!

My sister does not live independently she has 4 carers 24 hrs a day in the house and they do everything for her. However the cost of this care totals £1600 per month funded by the ILF and more money paid to the local
authority on top. if this lady cannot carry the child competently, cannot raise the child herself then there is no possibility of that happening in the future - therefore sterilisation is the best option. Contraception fails and will entail drugs which may interfere with her current meds plus she will incur the risks inherent with those drugs. I agree that serialisation is NOT a major op and having had 2 C-sections myself I know only too well that this a major procedure.

I sincerely hope the judges in this case rule in favour of the parents' wishes and allow this lady freedom to live her life without the need for drugs. A minor procedure will benefit everyone concerned in this case and I would allow my sister to have the same op should the need arise.