to think my daughter needs to get over herself in this instance?

[missismac]

A bit of background; my dear friend died 18 months ago leaving a (then) 13yr old daughter who now lives with her Dad. This daughter and my daughter were, and are, very good (sometimes 'best') friends and classmates.

Now they're both older, they are still at school together still have the same group of friends as well as other, more separate groups of friends. They are still fond of each other but have different interests and likes. So far so good.

DH & I are names are named as carers for DD's friend should anything ever happen to him. So I feel protective toward the girl, also promised her Mum we'd watch over her.

SO to the dilemma. Girls Dad had to go away for a couple of nights with work & asked whether she could stay with us. This would mean her coming here from school with DD for two nights and going to school with her for two mornings. We have spare room so agreed on the spot. When I told DD she reacted badly and went into strop saying couldn't girl go to someone else, she didn't want her here, she'd have to look after her etc.etc.

I said I didn't think much of her attitude and left her to get over it. Girl came - all was well. The two girls spent a lot of time giggling in DD's room. Didn't seem to be any issues or problems.

Have just said to daughter "so was it as bad as you thought?" & she replied that she never wanted me to do that again & next time i should say 'no' & girl should go to someone else because she just got so 'fed up' with girl by the end. I am a bit horrified by her callous selfish attitude - the girl has no Mum FGS, and don't quite know how to get across to DD that I have some responsibility to girl and so would probably not say 'no' if asked again. Let alone tackle DD's stinking attitude.

Am I being too tough on DD, or should I kick her up the bum (metaphorically)?

coldtits - disagree completely.

The DD is 15, for goodness sake, and whilst she lives under the OP's roof she should do as she is told.

She shouldn't be 'consulted' - she can be told in advance, perhaps - she should just accept it as one of life's little duties.

Whenever I, as a stroppy teenager, stormed off delcaring X to be 'unfair', my Mother would always respond with, "Yes darling, life's unfair!".

What Hecate said. You need to find some way of having her to stay, without there being the expectation that your daughter will spend all evening with her. More like a sibling than a friend IYSWIM.

I must admit I don't have any immediate ideas on how to do that...

Gordon Benett - you're talking about a friend staying two nights - school nights at that, so not even very long in the evenings to "entertain".

Just a tad different from a husband moving another woman into the house!

Kick up the bum time from here too!

Coldtits, that analogy is seriously flawed!

Stand your ground, OP - 15-year-olds should be able to show compassion and behave maturely. I doubt the other girl wants to live in your DD's pocket either.

Also can't see how so much "entertainment" can even be necessary on a school night - don't they have piles of homework?

yabu for letting this girl stay when your daughter dousnt want her too. of course shel be left to look after this girl, for quite a long time.

it was YOU that agreed to keep on eye on her, not your daughter its unfair you have effectivly dumped her on her against her will

Two nights! precious princess can cope for 2 nights, surely!

I agree with Hecate. I wonder, though, if they've fallen out recently

I remember that just after I left home, a friend of the family's daughter got into difficulties and went to stay with my parents. I was irrationally jealous, she seemed to be a 'better daughter' than me and when they were going on 'she did this, then we all did that', I really didn't feel nice towards this girl.

Jealousy is human, and your daughter is being human. I also think I would check out with her if the girl is coming to stay again, not for her to veto it, but so she can make some choices about what to do (e.g. she might want to go out a bit or do something else). Having a friendship forced on you in your own home is a bit much even if they were friends before (and it sounds like they were drifting a bit anyway), at least by respecting your daughter does have some say in how she handles it, then it won't become a big battle.

And a word about empathy won't go amiss.

I keep on coming back to the fact that we're talking about 13 year olds - not toddlers, and 2 nights!

I would expect a 13 year old to be able to show compassion and understanding to a friend for 2 nights!

yes but it isnt really compassion when its forced upon her is it? compassion is something you yourself feel completly misses the point if you are instructed to be compassionate

Well, the dd did show compassion for two nights, and entertained this girl very nicely.

They are 15 now and so I think it's reasonable for the mum to take in the girl, but not reasonable to completely over-rule the feelings of her daughter, who, rightly or wrongly probably feels this girl to be more of a rival and a bit of a pain in her own home, even though they are friends. But yes, she should be able to put up with her, not sure why it is a big deal letting the dd know if she's coming again though (all this 'it's my house' blah blah is just making the teen dd stroppier, not more compassionate).

I agree Onetwomany. She did do the right thing when it came to it, I think she just wants the right to voice her feelings.

So, do you suggest that the OP says "Dd, you know X? Well, as you know, she doesn't have a mum and her dad has to go away for a couple of days, and he's asked if she can stay with us, what with you and her being friends at school. What do you think? No? You don't want to? That's fine, I'll say no. Maybe another time, if your're in the mood for being comassionate then. But no prssure - whenver you fell like it"

They are 15, not 13.

It isn't always easy to be compassionate, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to feel it in cases where we don't naturally. Even if the OP's DD doesn't feel any sympathy for this girl, at 15 she should be able to wear the mask for a couple of nights. It sounds like she did do this and just boiled over after the girl had gone, but she needs to understand that the same thing may happen again.

No you can't make somebody be compassionate but you can hope that they would become compassionate if they were able to be mature enough to put themselves in somebody else's shoes. She should be able to do that at 15.

I am in a boot up the backside camp. I am assuming you didn't make your DD spend time in her room with the friend? They chose to do that? The friend has a room of her own, it isn't as if your DD even has her personal space invaded.

Actually, in writing this, I now wonder if there is a another way of looking at this. Could it be that your DD doesn't want the girl to visit because not because she is jealous or doesn't get on with her but becasuse she doesn't want the girl to see how your family lives?

I'm not putting this very well but maybe it not that she doesn't like the girl but that she is ashamed about something at your home. Is her room a pig sty, do you walk around naked or eat your tea out of the saucepan. I don't know something that would make your DD not want the girl to see how you live close up?

I am sure your table manners are exemplary and your house pristine but is there something about your way of life that you DD thinks doesn't bear examination close up by the girl?

No, I wouldn't say that seeker, I'd say, 'As you know, we are looking after X for bits now her mum isn't here, so she's coming on Tue and Wed evening, you were great with her last time, I really appreciate the effort you make with her' and if she said 'I'm going out for the evening' I'd probably let her (and suffer the consequences of feeling guilty). You can't enforce friendships aged 15 and if anything, it's actually not supporting the girl by making her into a burden and not a pleasure to have around.

No seeker - I think at this point I'd just recognise that it wasn't ideal for her, not have too much of a downer on her for saying it, then next time the girl comes, give her some praise for behaving well. OPs DD sounds like my son. He does have compassion, he knows what's right, he knows when he's behaved badly actually, OPs daughter didn't behave badly), but he needs to have his say

I think you have done all you can OP - perhaps there is some funny dynamic going on in the wider group of friends at school - but if your DD is in a position to say "it's nothing to do with me - it's because my Mum was friends with her Mum" then that should diffuse the situation, surely?

I would think DD is entitled to know when/if Girl is coming to stay again, but not to be consulted - that is definite kick-up-bum territory IMO.

totally agree that OPs DD shouldn't have the right of veto

YADNBU

At 13, your DD is the ideal age to learn about compassion and sacrifice. By choosing to have your friend's DD to stay, you're showing your DD the importance of putting our own feelings to one side and helping and supporting other people.

I completely disagree with Coldtits. This girl has lost her mum FFS.

The girl might be 15 but this is her home we are talking about,the one place she can feel safe and at 15 in my experience it is very important to have somewhere without friends in IYSWIM.

I think she should be compassionate and obviously you have to fulfil your responsibilities towards the other girl however to be told that she may come to stay at any time in the future that your daughter has no say in this and that effectively therefore her needs come second in your eyes to those of this other child is i think a dagerous route to travel.

It seems obvious that the OP's daughter is seeing this girl as a rival for her mothers affections,teenagers emotions are strange thing and in her eyes it may seem(however illogical)that this girl has qualities eg academic ones which you would have like in your own daughter ,she feels threatened.

also and this is important you are changing the dynamics of her friendship,no longer is it the natural friendship between two school girls,now she has to be friends with her because you have this relationship with the family.What would happen if they were to fall out,could she argue with her or would you expect her to give in to keep the peace etc.This is a complex situation actually and you are not dealing with children but with young women.

I would tread carefully over this I know one family with a very similar situation and over a period of years the friend has become the "daughter"as the real daughter has retreated further from the family.

Hmm, well certainly some food for thought in these posts.

Onetoomany -I will (and did this time) warn DD in advance that her friend would be staying for a couple of nights, but as seeker says - I won't be giving Dd the power of yay or nay over whether Girl comes. That's what DD seemed to be suggesting she should have. I think that's what the 'big deal' was for me, not whether I should tell her in advance or not.

The Girl does have her own room when she's here, & on the second evening when Girl wanted to watch something DD didn't I suggested that Girl watch telly in our room & DD go & do whatever it was she wanted to do. I hoped that would make it clear that they weren't expected to be joined at the hip. But maybe I wasn't clear enough & need to say to both girls next time "just because you're friends doesn't mean you have be together all the time whilst Girl is 'living' with us - you both have your own lives & you can carry them on as usual". Of course in reality, & ironically those 'own lives' usually involve one another quite heavily.

I don't think I'm being unfair to DD by having other Girl here Coldtits. Maybe I am putting other Girl's needs above DD's feelings though. However DD lives in a nice-ish, secure home with a Mum & Dad who love each other (mostly ), I think she can stand a little of this kind of 'unfairness' now and again.

Niecie - do you mean that not everyone walks round naked and eats tea t the saucepan? Actually you make a good point. At 15 most peoples parents and families are a mortal embarrassment to them aren't they? Maybe letting someone 'in' to see us (DD has 3 younger DB's too) in all our glory puts a strain on DD that I hadn't considered?

My gut feeling is that this is to do with DD feeling 'responsible' for Girl whilst she's here, & that I need to make it clearer to both girls that that this arrangement is different to a normal sleepover (when of course DD is responsible for her friends) and as such different rules apply.

yes, the girl has lost her mum, and compassion should be shown, but making shit of a teenager because they aren't feeling as compassionate as you would like them to is not the way to handle them.

She hasn't been selfish at ALL. She may be having selfish thoughts and shre may be voicing them, but her actual behavior has been irreproachable.

"..being treated as one of the family when she's here. In fact I did do this & girl was given chores along with my own DC's. Interestingly DD was horrified by this as she said her friend was a guest & so should be exempt."

I do think this is the key here: it seems that DD feels responsible for this girl - as in total responsibility - as dd's guest. Which is why she asks you to consult her first if the girl is to stay: dd feels she's the one doing all the work. She has a point in that she may feel it falls to her to entertain this girl. Social pressure at that age is immense - dd may well feel she has to put up a good show. Think how you'd feel if you felt you had to 'entertain' a woman friend for 2 days when you hadn't chosen to: exhausting.

I can understand that - but she's got her wires crossed. The girl isn't her responsibility. A word along those lines wouldn't go amiss (though I think you have to be firm). I had very similar problems with my girl at the same age re she felt she had to carry the world on her shoulders and resented it. It took quite a bit of explaining that most of it wasn't her responsbility.

To underline that the girl is not dd's responsbility, it might be an idea for dd to stay somewhere else on one of the night's the girl stays - just to underline that the girl isn't dd's responsbility to 'entertain'? ie get on with her own life as per usual. just an idea (bcs jealousy may not be the prime sticking point here). I wonder if dd may be suffering from too much responsibility and compassion?

My friend had to go away overnight last week, and her dp had an unexpected business trip. She rang me at short notice asking if her two could stay the night with us. The children and mine are friendly, but not close buddies. (the are 15 and 10) I said yes immediately but by some people's reckoning I should have said "I'll check it out with the dcs and get bacl to you"! Surely not!