Am I right to think this is a total cop out?

[spanners80]

I've posted this on the bullying forum, but I think as it's so ranty, it may sit better in here...

My DD is in year 1. We've been dealing with a group of girls, and one in particular in DD's class bullying her (and others) since the start of reception. Having been assured that it had been swiftly dealt with, we left it alone, with hushed grumblings between mums about this particular child's ongoing behaviour.

We knew this child continued to be unpleasant, but were not aware of the detais (DD just shrugged it off). I didn't push the subject as I assumed I was just being over-protective.

Finally a few weeks ago, everything blew up when a friend of my DD had enough and on witnessing her shoving DD to the ground and pulling her hair he punched this girl square in the face (I have to say I did a little internal happy dance for him, even though I know hands are not for hitting etc, but you would wouldn't you?). At school the boy got into trouble and so did DD for winding up the girl in question.

I only heard about this from the little boy's mum - the school didn't deem it important enough to let me know (grrr). So, I questioned DD and she causally explains that this child pulls her hair / calls her names / hits her on a daily basis and there's no point in telling as she gets told off for telling tales. Cue me throwing a hissy fit at the Deputy Head who assures me that she will call a staff meeting to put a stop to it.

Now I teach in a senior school and if this happened in my classroom choose your deity to help the little b**r who was caught bullying. Swift and sharp action would befall. I have no issue with calling in a parent to explain what their little darlings have been up to (that goes for good behaviour too - I'm not actually some bun toting, tweed wearing dragon... I am working on it though).

DD is in year one, where surely they should be instilling the nature of cause and effect in terms of behaviour. However, today I was informed that action was to be taken (yay!) - my daughter is to be put into a 'special' group where they will be taught 'resiliance training' (huh?). Isn't that then further singling them out for torment from the 'normals'?

Ok, maybe this may help her tell a teacher, but what is the point if no action is taken against the bullies? And at what point did we decide that 'man-up' classes were the new cop out for teacher who can't or won't manage their class's behaviour?

Ok, with the rant over, has anyone had any experience of a child being put in this training? Am I over-reacting just a smidge and if not how do I politely tell DD's school where to go with their hippy approach and actually deal with the issues in the school? I'm tempted to say just that, but I can't see me being Mrs popular after that...

phew.

You arent overreacting at all, the bully is still not being dealt with.

actually YANBU on the basis that your DD was in trouble for 'winding the bully up'

Had similar with my DS who was punished for using his hands. What she didn't know as DS didn't feel she'd listen if he said was this child followed DS calling him terrible names and tormenting him until DS backed into a corner. Teacher said my DS and this boy hd nothing to do with each other.

A quick meeting where I asked to see the bullying policy (learnt from MN) soon got it sorted.

With my experience ^^ I would actually rhink some support for your DD confidence would help but alongside the bully being dealt with efficiently.

Best of luck

Does your daughter often wind the girl in question up?

Resillience training is normally given to children who take themselves a bit too seriously and tell tales to a large extent. They're taught how to accept others and also how to stop taking themselves too seriously.

resilliance training?

Is that what I think it is?

Instead of dealing with the bully, they teach the bullied children how best to bend over and take it

Oh. My. God.

Today children, we are going to teach you that it is ok to be bullied and we aren't going to stop it, but we will teach you how best to put up with it.

What total arse faced twatting WANKER came up with that bloody stupid idea?

Bloody disgrace. As someone said, ask to see the bullying policy. And insist that the bully be dealt with. This is nothing short of a disgrace.

Seriously, they think the answer to bullying is to tell the victims to be stronger? Good grief.

I suppose 'resilience training' (whatever that is) might actually be useful but ONLY if the bullying behaviour is tackled effectively at the same time.

Suggest you ask to see the bullying policy and contact Kidscape for advice about what primary schools should actually be doing.

we had similar with ds1 school.it felt at times that the bully was rewarded and the bullied ignored.he now goes to a lovely new school!(we had other problems with the school too)

I'd be concerned that the school have dismissed your dd's requests for help as telling tales. Tales are for playground stuff. It ceases to be tales when someone is hurt or persistently upset.
I'd also be raising hell about that, as feeling unsupported and unbelieved can be one of the worst parts about being on the receiving end of bullying behaviour.

Good luck and your dd sounds fab.

x-post muntznutz.

So it's basically - it's your fault you are being bullied, if you weren't you, then you wouldn't be being bullied, here's how you can change your personality to make you someone who does not deserve to be bullied?

mutznutz - apparently winding her up means walking past her, or doing something she deems stupid like reading a book at playtime, or having the wrong lunchbox.

I think I would be saying, ok this is how you are dealing with the bullied child, how are you dealing with the bully? Because they definitely should be addressing her issues, not just trying to get others to stand up to her. One suggestion I have is to ask other parents to speak to the teacher about the bullying - their child is upset about your child's treatment by this girl etc. I taught year 1 a few years ago and at parents' evening a girl's parents told me she was being teased in the playground ( when I wasn't out there and away from teachers' eyes). Later another mother told me her daughter had been in tears about the bullying of this other girl. Of course I was going to address it anyway but hearing that another child was so upset over it really made me think that it must be serious. I would also be keeping a record of exactly what this child is doing to your dd. Then take it to the teacher every week to point out exactly what is happening. If she is still dismissive take it to the head teacher.

No the training isn't (or certainly shouldn't be) instead of the bully being punished...but as well as.

I'm explaining it badly really, but it is offered mainly (in my son's school) to children who kind of think everyone is bullying them...when often they aren't.

'Bully' is one of the most over used words when it comes to schools (especially primary) and often the training shows them what is and what isn't considered to be bullying...because believe it or not, some kids and parents have no idea.

That's the best way I can explain it OP and of course the training could be different in your child's school.

That pretty much backs up my idea that it's a cop out.

As DD is being hit, hair pulled, bitten (only once), teased and items of clothing stolen or broken on a daily basis this can't possibly not be seen as bullying. It just seems that they want her to just put up with it and for me to stop making a fuss. These classes only came about when I asked what their Every Child Matters policy was.

I'm meant to tell her not to hit back. It's so frustrating.

Wow spanners, your poor DD! :(

Just wanted to offer you some support, YANBU at all.

My friends son was put through this training and it is how to take it up the arse without complaining, the bully had family problems you see
My friend took her boy to tae won do and knowing J is receiving medal after medal (because he takes them into assembly) has meant he's been less bullied recently, T - the bully has moved on to somebody else though so nothing has been solved.
Oh and the family problem i.e. his bully of a dad was tragically killed so now that's the excuse given.

YADNBU it is a cop out and they are failing the child who is doing the bullying as well as the victims if they don't deal with her behaviour. Does (the bully) have SN or is there some other reason why they are afraid to deal with her?

often the training shows them what is and what isn't considered to be bullying...because believe it or not, some kids and parents have no idea

If a child is uncomfortable with the behavior of another or there is physical contact what on earth could be misunderstood about that ?
A slap is not bullying unless followed up by a punch or does it have to be 3 punches in a row before it's bullying ?
As far as i'm concerned a funny look I can live with, name calling or unwanted physical contact of any description is bullying and it needs stamping out before said child reaches the age of criminal responsibility or gets it's head kicked in by picking on the wrong kid.

@MrsDeidreIppy I don't know of any SN (although you never know), but that's still no excuse.

No it is no excuse. It seems though that for some reason they don't want to deal with her so are dealing with the victims instead. Like the example Mamatomany gave with the child who had lost his dad. It doesn't make it acceptable though. In fact its even worse if they don't want to deal with a child's behaviour because of SN or emotional problems.

Your DD is in Yr1 FGS, this resilience training is a crock of shit.

YANBU.

Sod the Deputy Head, go marching up to the Head with a stonking letter demanding that this girl cease her battery of your child immediately or you will be contacting the authorities.

When my boy was bullied (Reception!) I wrote a letter to the Head that was structured so that only the top of the letter contained my personal details and gave her permission to copy the letter to the 3 Yr1 girls that were holding my 4yo captive every playtime for the majority of the play times from when he started to Christmas. I have no idea if she did send the letter, but I'm hopeful the parents were told.

Once the Head got involved and spoke to the girls, it stopped.

The other thing is that if there are a group of DC that are suffering at the hands of this girl, group together and address an open letter to the Head from you all, demanding that the anti-bullying policy is implemented forthwith, or you will be seeking external advice from the authorities/social services.

When it comes to a 6yo battering another child, I'm sorry but it doesn't matter if the child hitting the other one is SN or not, steps must be taken to protect the child being hit. Children have to be kept safe.

Is the playground supervised well enough? this was one of the issues we suffered from.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I will feel much more confident about demanding a better resolution to the situation. And will talk to the other mums involved to see if we can put something forward as a group.

I think I will initially opt for something in writing that we can refer back to, and the idea of a letter that can be passed onto the parents as a mediation tool is a great idea.

But thank you again.

It's so horrible to go through this, you feel so powerless and you made to feel you ARE Making a Fuss.

Put EVERYTHING in writing, think about it as if you would want it in a court of law to back you up and to clearly state what has happened, dispassionately and calmly, but clearly and simply.

Good luck, thinking of you, please let us know how you get on?

The 'resilience training' sounds as if it might be useful in confidence-building and thinking skills.

I wouldn't mind going, especially as it seems to be free! I hope you don't turn down the offer to your daughter flat - she might love it, and get lots out of it.

I think that it's a great idea to support kids to learn skills to deal with bullies. Just punishing the bully isn't enough IMO. Bullies pop up again and again over your lifetime and knowing how to deal with them is a bit of life skill.

Today I was working with a Year 7 child who was mocked by some nasty kids in her class for her disability. This is not okay on any level and they will have detention for a week as a result.. but we did talk about what she wished she had done in the situation etc and worked through the consequences of what she wished she had said e.g. she suggested that if someone said something like that again, she could say: "Please don't say something like that, it really upsets me". We talked about the bully's intention (to upset) and came to the conclusion that it would be better to say: "Don't talk to me like that" and walk away/tell someone. We did a bit of roleplay about how to do it etc (all the while acknowledging that no one has the right to mock her disability and of course it is upsetting and shocking).

I don't know if this is "resilience training", maybe more like assertiveness etc but I certainly don't think acknowledging that there are at least two people in every interaction and that their actions make a difference to how an interaction plays out equates to asking a "victim" to "bend over and take it" from a bully.

It would be great if just punishing bullying kids made a lifelong difference to the likelihood of someone being bullied, but it doesn't, does it? Many kids who are bullied will be bullied by others and unfortunately, doing something like asking someone to stop their behaviour because it's upsetting is likely to increase the bullying behaviour, not prevent it.

Hard facts of life, I think?