to be stunned at the rates some nannies expect to be paid?

[headfairy]

Ok, I'm putting this here because if I put it in childcare I'll have hundreds of nannies hating me for evermore... However, recently I've had two nannies tell me they want in excess of £15ph net. Gross that up and that's what I earn, a graduate with 20 years experience working in a very high pressured environment with deadlines that have to be met every hour. Both of them have 10 years of nannying experience, but still....

I've had several more who want £12ph net, with less than 5 years nannying experience, and a few more who want £10ph net and yet they have almost no experience, and who've sent me cvs filled with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.

I'm going to get flamed I know... I've got the hard hat ready.

Well, if they want their kids to go to school and be taught, if they want their children to go to a clinic or hospital and to be seen by a doctor or nurse, and if they ever want to get their pets looked after when sick, they had better get out of that judgemental bubble and start being grateful that some women do make an effort to go out to work after having children, for all these professions are increasingly female dominated and staffed by the very people using the childcare they are providing.

We could take it further. Bank of England reports make it clear that if women didn't participate in the workplace in this way, the country would be even more financially precarious than it is at the moment, by a long shot. Perhaps when the nannies are raking in their child benefit and tax credits and what not, they could remember who has paid for it all.

oh God BoffinMum, I think I love you! You've said everything I'm not articulate enough to say (despite the degree and 20 years experience blah blah blah...)

I work in childcare and every person I know that worked in a nursery or as a childminder pre kids is still working in the industry after,

You can bring your children to work with you so effectively get paid to look after your own children. You would be mad to leave an aopportunity like that. I dont know any childcarers that children arent in childcare as they can do it themselves and have loads of other kids.

It means you get your childcare paid for and then get paid on top of that. It is actually the best job you can do when you have kids if you want to see them a lot but still make money.

Hm true, childcarers often combine caring for their children and working but suggest hey take a paycut for that and a good 50% will flip out! On a rank scale I would a) nanny and take my child, b) work in my current job and have a nanny for my child, c) stay at home. Most childcarers will actively avoid putting their child into nursery under 3 or so, unless they're working there.

And the reason a and b in my choices are ranked the way they are is because of course I would rather spend time with my child, even on a reduced rate from pre-children, than earn what I do now (which if you classed it as every teaching hour looks very attractive but isn't really considering I spend double my contact time preparing/marking) which would leave me with very little disposable income.

Many nannies, especially those without children or who have always brought their children along and never taken a drop in salary and never paid for childcare, don't realise just how much they are costing.

I dont know why people dont just use nurseries. It onlys cost £30 for mine for 10 hours. Its cheap and you get all your food, nappies etc. It makes more sense than paying out extortionate prices for nannies thats what I would do.

I would also send my children to nursery over any other option regardless if I was working there or not. I dont think there is anything wrong with nursery for under 3s. (In fact mine started at 4 months and I would do the same again with my second if I was in same situation)

A good nursery is an excellent form of childcare but they're difficult to find and you don't have the same level of flexibility and control you do with homebased childcare.

Trying to find a nursery with a homely environment, stable and experienced staff, extended hours, good food, room for a child to do direct their own play and learning, good integration into the community and a 1:1 or 1:2 ratio with a consistent caregiver is virtually impossible. That's what a nanny gets you even if you pay more for it.

Most nurseries can deliver some of those things but some parents don't want to or can't compromise, which is why they don't use a nursery.

Also childcarers who've worked in less-than-brilliant settings will be more wary, especially if they know what the alternatives are. I'm sure if all my experiences of working in nurseries were positive I'd be a lot happier putting my child into one but sadly that's not the case.

I just think that all forms of childcare you get bad ones and good ones. Just because someone is with a nanny, childminder etc doesnt mean they are doing things they way you want them to when your not there. I will admit I am biased though I love nursery because I get to see all the good things.

I have just read the first few pages on this thread as well and it says you cant use a childminder as you work until 7.30. Have you explored that option as here I know childminders who do from 7am until 8pm and also can do overnights. They only charge £3 an hour so its a much cheaper option.

I will also add many nursery staff will take children out of hours to. A lot of my colleagues take children in the mornings and look after them.

One of the staff gets a 2 year old from 6am and takes them to nursery then brings them home and gets them ready for bed. They also drop the children back to the childrens door for them so the parents dont have to do it. This is also a very cheap way of doing things.

Ah but you can fire them if they don't do what you want and replace them with someone who does! You also get much more choice between carers and a greater chance of getting someone who is in the same wavelength looking after your children. Ultimately a major advantage of homebased childcare for many parents, and childcarers/ex-childcarers are particularly guilty of this failing, is control. I can control what happens in my home, what language is spoken, what activities are done, what food is eaten etc to a much greater extent than I can in a nursery. Also my carer doesn't have to spend forever filling in paperwork, doing observations, replacing displays, changing 10 nappies and filling in the paperwork which goes with that etc.

There are good and bad in all forms though and a bad nanny can probably do more damage than a bad nursery or CM because they're unregulated. Swings and roundabouts and a totally individual choice.

I do agree it all depends on the place. We do all displays and books outside of working hours unpaid. I think its a good thing as it doesnt impact on time with the children. We also change displays and set up the role play area on weekends so it doesnt impact on child focused time.

I am very lucky to have my child with a team that do this though. You have to find people that live for child care regardless of whether they are nursery staff, childminders or nannies. It is definitely a vocation and must be something your life is focused around. I agree it is hard if you dont personally know many child care staff.

We have one advertising here...new graduate, no experience with kids yet..£14 an hour!

Graduate in what

I hope they've got other things going for them if they have no experience!

Makes me wonder what I could earn now....

Get an Au Pair, thats what we did.

'We have one advertising here...new graduate, no experience with kids yet..£14 an hour!'

Exactly thats what I mean you could geta graduate in Early Childhood Studies or Education for £3 an hour with extensive childcare experience. There is no way I would pay more for an unexperienced nanny!

I agree completely with the op that £15 net per hour is a huge amount of money and I would never have dreamed of asking for this much when I nannied. I worked as a nanny in Surrey until 5 years ago and I was paid £4.40nph. I cared for the children , did the school runs for the eldest child, cooked all their meals, did the shopping (for the children's food), cleaned the children's areas (kitchen, playroom, bedrooms, bathroom), and did their laundry. In between all this the children did an art activity every day, went to the park, were taught to read, etc. The 'perks' of the job were mileage payments and food provided. I did all this for this amount because I absolutely loved the job. I was told at college that you had to be a nanny because you loved looking after children, not to make a fortune.

However, to say that anyone could be a nanny as mothers do it unpaid all the time is unfair. As a nanny you have to be able to hold your temper, care about the children, want the best for them, be prepared to spend all your employed hours with the children (no shoving them in front of Cbeebies while you chat on the phone, read a mag, etc.). You have to learn to love the children, accept other people's parenting ideals even if it's not how you would do it, and if the child is beyond the daytime nap stage, there is no lunch hour, no coffee break, no just popping out to get this or that. All this is hard work when the child is not your own and you don't have the instinctive love for them that you have as a parent. So no, not just anyone could do this and the people who can are worth paying for. (Although not £15nph - that's just greedy!)

sorry, in early years somethingorather...will have to check website again

Mmm not worth £14 then. I would be expect a Oxbridge First in something obscure yet extremely desirable for that

But an EY grad will have some experience of children, just possibly not in a professional capacity as a nanny.

It was the no experience which made me wonder whether they had a completely unrelated degree and were asking £14net on the basis of being a graduate.

Ta, headfairy

I have no problem with people asking for £14 an hour or whatever (even though it's clearly bonkers), but it's when they start loading it with psychological manipulation that plays on parents' sore spots that I think it's harmful. I mean the comments like "If you really cared about your children you would pay more" and "Everyone else is paying it, why can't you?" and "Obviously you don't particularly want to be with your children or you would stay at home with them like I plan to when I have some" and so on. No other profession could get away with being quite so offensive to clients, and I note that there are a number of good nannies on these threads who get equally frustrated with that kind of mindset. It undermines family relationships and structures as well as parents' self-belief and is nothing short of toxic.

Luckily there are still a lot of nannies in the industry who seek a balance between being happy in childcare and earning a sensible wage without financially crucifying the parents for the sake of a short-term gain, and these nannies tend to be the ones that enjoy professional stability and a happy working environment as a consequence. It seems to me that you reap what you sow in life.

To respond to the point about nurseries, they are easily £10,000 a year per child in this area for an under-two so not everyone can afford that if they have multiple children or odd working hours.

Oh you lot have kept me in the dark about this thread... found it now

As you know headfairy I hate the Net pay situation. As a nanny I negotiate a gross salary.

As a nanny working in Surrey, I'm on a little under £21,000 gross per year for a 40 hour week. I don't view that as being a bad salary, it's more than nursery pays. It isn't as much as I got working as an IT & Sales Manager around 7 years ago (£27k) but I'm far less stressed doing nannying, than doing that job.

Surrey is a strange county... I feel it needs to split up. Parts of Surrey are in London. Other parts are far more Sussex. The M25 splits the county in pay terms... inside the M25 salaries go up hugely. I work a stones through from the M25, yet am Outside it, so don't get the salary someone working 10 miles away would get. Central London (22 miles away) is another world... nanny salary wise.

Luckily there are still a lot of nannies in the industry who seek a balance between being happy in childcare and earning a sensible wage without financially crucifying the parents for the sake of a short-term gain, and these nannies tend to be the ones that enjoy professional stability and a happy working environment as a consequence. It seems to me that you reap what you sow in life.

Oh BoffinMum you are so right. Been in my current job nearly 3 years and I expect it will last a good few more years yet. Was in my previous job for 3 years.

Would I like more money - sure, I've seen a house for £180k but a few more £ per hour won't enable to buy it... I'd need a lot more to get it.

That is one of the problems with Surrey... house prices. Nannies need a salary that pays the mortgage. Though I was surprised that a flat in Clapham could be got for £800 a month, whereas a flat where I live would be £700 a month. Yet nanny salaries are around %40 higher than what I am on. So it can't just be house prices that make the difference.

Ah, the sweet voice of NannyNick reason, as ever!

I'm in West London and pay my nanny £12.00 p/h gross. She is very experienced and has told me time and time again that (as Nannynick mentions above) that working for a nice family on an OK wage is way more preferable to working for a difficult or spikier family for more money.

If you think about it, the way parents treat a nanny, and expects their DC's to treat their nanny has an unbelievable bearing on their quality of working life.

Our nanny had three offers when she did our last round of interviews and she took ours because she just liked the vibe of the household and the demeanour of our DC's. She's 34. She knows she's never going to earn £70K unless she's nannying round the clock for Bono or Madonna, so I guess it suits her.

So, in short, I don't think you have to pay that wage to get a great nanny.