Feeling angry realising that I wouldn't get the job I have if I went for it now because I have children

[Rollergirl1]

I overheard a phone conversation today between one of my colleagues (senior management) on the phone to a recruitment agency, talking about a candidate that he had just seen. The candidate was a woman in her 40's. He was very pleased with her, liked her profile, how she came across, was happy with her experience. Her only downfall was that she has children. He went on to explain that he didn't feel that he could ask how old (her children were). But his concerns were that she would not be able to be away from home for, example, 3 days at a time. He didn't even ask her these questions. But the upshot was that she was not a candidate, because she had children. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

I have 2 young children and work part-time. This overheard conversation has brought me right back down to earth. Although I have worked for the company for over 10 years and have a wealth of experience within our company and within our business, if I were to be interviewed now for a full-time job with my company, I probably wouldn't be considered because I have children.

How disgusting is that?!

I agree with Blackswan, you would not have heard the same conversation about a man with small children. Are they right though? Would you be able to go travelling for three days?

Sexist assumption whatever, I suppose.

SardineQueen, yes there is a middle ground but that is on an individual basis. The point I am making is that some women make the assumption/opinion that a woman couldn't travel or shouldn't travel. While these women hold these beliefs, it holds all women back because it will cause some employers to assume that all women are the same.

Don't really see the point of your argument in the context of the OP noviceoftheday. The person interviewing/employing was male and I highly doubt he was taking into account other women's views when he decided to act in the way that he did.

Of course, I am happy to be proved wrong if the OP comes back and confirms that upon his taking a straw poll of the women in his professional and personal life, it was their views which made him think that a woman with a child/children would not be able to do the job she had decided to interview for.

if i were you id go and tell them you over heard this conversation and will tell the women who applied if they dont promote you!

TheMartorialist my comment wasn't made in the context of the OP, but in relation to some of the subsequent posts, so was more a general comment. As regard the OP, I totally understand why she is upset about what she overheard.

how did the employer know she had children? you are not allowed to ask for that information in an application or interview - it is against the law.

if she voluteered it herself then that was rather foolish.

Yes you are allowed to ask.It's just that you are not allowed to treat women with children differently from men with children

Why was it foolish kepler? Are you suggesting that his discriminatory act is her responsibility?

I'm not sure he can ask. Any rec people know?

Unfortunately most people can tell from a CV with a gap with ML on it and make assumptions from that.

It is possible she didn't mention it at all.

Fair enough novice. Apologies for misunderstanding the context of your post

Why is it foolish to volunteer the fact that you have children if it comes up in the conversation? What would be foolish is stating that you are unable to travel in/for a job which was clearly advertised as including travel. The two are, AFAIK, mutually exclusive unless the interviewee states that she is unable or unwilling to travel because she has children.

Due to the man's quite sexist assumptions it may have been better for her to address the issue and say solidly travel is not a problem.

Sometimes you have to say about children.

I am looking for a new job and my CV looks a bit odd in that I went from a good job in the city to a local part time role for half the money. Obviously recruitment consultants and employers ask what happened here. The truth is that I had a child and that was what I decided to do. Any answer other than the truth would be a lie and sound bonkers. Loads of women have gaps in employment which make it obvious that they had a family - and employers are absolutely allowed to ask about gaps in CVs.

Oh I see I have just repeated what marsha said

But would the interviewee have been aware of the interviewer's sexist assumptions? I would hate to think that I must constantly be on my guard for sexism/racism etc when interviewing for a job. Unless she said otherwise, it would have been reasonable to assume that she was ok with the travel involved.

Ha

I am in exactly the same position I have a biggish gap on my CV. The rec c says they will want to know why. So I quickly state nanny is sorted and not an issue and don't dwell on it.

It is a minefield, but I have been offered positions since so will keep going with that tactic for now!

Goldenbear - what is actually legal and what is actually in practice are two different matters. They're not allowed to ask me whether I'm planning on having children, so there is no way I can introduce the topic and say whether I am or not. Unfortunately this means they would be more likely to choose a man or a younger woman/unattached woman.

I have spoken to friends of mine who work in HR and they grimace, tell me it's illegal, then agree that it's very likely companies would look at me this way. The fact that I haven't got huge amounts of experience behind me means I have nothing to counteract the negative effect and I am, basically, unemployable unless I choose to go for more menial jobs, in which case I honestly don't know why I bothered working so hard to get a degree.

Sadly Martorialist I am aware that in my industry they do not want someone who has to fly out the door even at 5.30 for the nursery run.

So much easier if you have a year off and go back, but faced with a pile of CVs I do have to check what the situation is with working late. If they do it (might not be good for me if they do anyway).

Oh - and I have a blank period due to ill health - are potential employers just assuming that means I already have kids???

If they don't ask you about it, I guess that's what they are assuming.

But the working late issue is separate from whether or not women have children, unless those women state it to be a problem. Were my DH to go for a job interview, it is unlikely they would think to ask whether or not he has children. The irony is that, despite no "maternity leave-scale" gap on his CV, HE is the one that would require flexible working arrangements in order to pick our DS up at the end of the day.

Well quite, martorialist.

DH would not want a job which meant he had to be away from home. I wouldn't mind TBH.

It's all silly.

It is an issue for me, yes a sexist one. People can speculate wildly about what it means if you have children.

Which is obvious from my CV gaps.

hard to hide the fact you have children though if you have periods of maternity leave on your CV

People should never mention children on CV's or at interview, they will know what the gap on the CV is all about but they won't dare bring the subject up if you don't I find.

They don't ask me directly but they do ask my rec c why there are gaps.

I have been asked why I changed from a "career" job in one industry to an admin role for half the money in another industry.

The truth is the only answer I can think to give.

If people were going to try and guess why I made that move they might come up with: I got sacked - or I couldn't cope with it - those are both worse than the truth I think.

Does anyone know what I ought to be saying? I have gone for honesty is the best policy but I'm not having much luck