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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Probably - my boss thinks so

90 replies

worknotworking · 01/02/2011 19:53

Am a regular lurker but namechanged for this just in case.

I'm the office dogsbody in a small office. Most of what I do is last minute and unplannable and I'm quite happy with that but..
I was having lunch today when the hr manager suddenly came out and asked me to go and get some lunch for a visitor. Problem is it's a 10 minute walk each way to the nearest shop and the weather was foul (5 minutes previuosly a collegue had started to walk to the shop and come back in for his car).

So I really didn't want to go and the annoyance was clear on my face and I said something whingy. Manager asked what we usually do (plan better) and if there are no nearer options (no - sandwich van had been and gone). So I agreed to go - ok grudgeingly and then had a brainwave and rang the collegue with the car. All sorted I thought.

But hr manager complained to line manager about my attitude. Yes it was a bad attitude but I think it was an unreasonalbe request (and she made no attempt to appologies for interrupting my lunch or sending me). She wants me to face disiclipinary action for this.

I think - although it is my job - it was an unreasonalbe request and am hoping someone will agree with me.

Thanks for reading - bit ranty but this has really upset me.

OP posts:

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 21:17

It is not U to send you to get lunch. In an ideal world we all plan ahead, but we don't live in an ideal world. I would have been annoyed at you being stroppy.

And I know you were eating your lunch; but I think it is R to ask you during this to do a task if it can't wait. As long as you can carry on with lunch afterwards and it happens occasionally.

However disciplinary action, if there is no other history where they have been unhappy with you, is ott. As line manager I would just have told you off for this. Lets hope that is all that happens.

Original poster

worknotworking · 01/02/2011 21:22

Lesley - just to clarify, I was only annoyed because getting lunch involved a 20min walk in weather bad enough that someone who usually walks it had gone for his car. If it had been a shop around the corner I would have gone happily.
Still I agree I could have handled it a lot better

OP posts:

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 21:23

BTW don't do what one poster suggested and frame a defence in terms of how they should have planned ahead in terms of lunch. This could just make you seem petty and whingy. Just apologise, but point out you have never done anything like this before and you do good work - if this is the case.

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 21:24

I could understand you being annoyed at going out in bad weather, but I still think it was R to ask you to do this.

Original poster

worknotworking · 01/02/2011 21:26

Thanks Lesley - yes it is the case (honest)

OP posts:

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 21:31

Good, then as long as your line manager is okay, everything should be okay. Just be apolegetic and hopefully this whole thing will blow over.

LatteLady · 01/02/2011 21:34

Actually this is unreasonable behaviour by the HR manager - I have a very close friend who actually took her company to an industrial tribunal and won when her boss insisted that she go and get a pint of milk during a heavy rainstorm, He then sacked her when she said, she would go when it stopped raining. The tribunal said that it was an unreasonable expectation to make her do a domestic chore when it was not in her actual job description together with him undertaking an unfair dismissal.

There are two reasons why you should not have been expected to undertake this task - it does not appear in your JD (if it is a regular expectation then your JD should have been updated). We review and update JDs on an annual basis. The cover all of reasonable duties or tasks as directed does not mean you can ask staff to undertake any ad hoc task that you see fit. Secondly, you were on a break and should not have been disturbed at this time.

Should you wish to, you would actually have grounds to raise a grievance against the HR manager.

SarahTonin · 01/02/2011 21:34

No not suggesting you even mention your 'legal rights' - just know what they are - and you can react accordingly. I am very much hoping HR person was having a bad day, you pulled a face and went a bit moany, and they snapped. Still bang out of order for them ot pursue beyond having a word with your line manager and leaving it to him - you will probably have a step process - at the most I feel there could be a written warning but I would push against having something on my employment record for this.

alemci · 01/02/2011 21:37

IDTUABU. You did as she asked.You used initiative and solved the problem. It wasn't like you refused her request. why didn't she go and get the lunch for the visitor? You are entitled to a break and she is out of order IMO.

why wasn't she more organised making sure the visitor had lunch from the sandwich van etc. seems very unfair on you.

SarahTonin · 01/02/2011 21:39

Agree with LL - update of JD is needed. If someone gets it in for you (am hoping this is not the case) they can make life v difficult for you and you may need to protect yourself against that.

V. interesting LL. Wonder whether he would have demanded a man to go go and get the milk in a rainstorm? Cheeky bugger. Wonder how great the company he works for thinks he is now! Never understand why a company would let something like that get to a tribunal.

magicmummy1 · 01/02/2011 21:41

I disagree, lesley - I wouldn't ever ask one of my staff to go out on a 10 minute walk in shitty weather - I'd rather go myself! And unless it was the direst of emergencies, I wouldn't interrupt their lunchbreak either.

If it was down to her own lack of planning, why didn't the hr manager take the visitor out in her car to get something? Or order in a pizza! It sounds to me like she lacks basic repect for other people - a junior member of staff is just that, not a bloody slave!

Having said that, I would get annoyed with a member of staff if I asked them to do something and they got all arsey about it and I have picked people up on this kind of thing before - people are paid to do a job and they should get on with it without making a fuss! But disciplinary action for a one-off is way ott, especially when the initial request was clearly unreasonable!

Lesley, do you really "tell off" your staff? Makes them sound like naughty kids!

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 21:49

Lattelady

You wouldn't normally have in JD - get the milk. The OP has already said that her job is general dogsbody so I would be surprised if this type of task isn't covered by JD in a general way.

Of course someone who was sacked for not getting milk would win their case at IT. If you are going to sack someone there are steps legally you need go through. There is no way you could sack someone for this if there wasn't a history with official warnings.

Although I am very surprised IT made reference to buying milk being U - unless the milk was for the boss to take home and not for the office. Getting milk for the office is a general task that everyone in my company does as needed. I would hate to work with people who see this as beneath them.

Don't put a grievance in against HR. I work in a small company like the OP and a formal grievance could just create a very bad atmosphere and make the job a miserable one.

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 21:51

Yes I do tell my staff of - but not in the way you would say it to kids. All I mean is that I say what I was unhappy about that the person did and that I don't expect it to happen again.

ajandjjmum · 01/02/2011 21:53

In this current climate, I wouldn't have been impressed to be faced with 'attitude' when asking someone to get sandwiches. Let's face it, the HR person was working through her lunch in a meeting with the visitor.

Sometimes you have to react to a situation and can't plan. That flexibility - in my experience - can be critical in retaining customer loyalty, which means keeping people in work.

QueenStromba · 01/02/2011 21:56

lesley33: You keep missing the point that both the OP and the person who got sacked for not going to buy milk straight away were both asked to do so during a rain storm - how is it in any way reasonable to expect someone who works in an office to go out in the rain unless it is an emergency and entirely necessary?

Original poster

worknotworking · 01/02/2011 21:56

Thanks - no won't do anything to take it further unless they do. I've got to carry on working with her.
Order a pizza :) I should have thought of that. Probably a good job I didn't.

Am feeling better now. Hopefully we can all pretend it never happened.

OP posts:

ajandjjmum · 01/02/2011 21:59

If I were you wnotw, I'd pop my head around the door of the HR person and your line manager tomorrow morning, and just say that you're sorry they thought you were being difficult - it really wasn't your intention, and as you've proved in the past you'll do whatever you can to help. Just to smooth over any atmosphere.

Hopefully the HR person will be big enough to apologise for their over-reaction too. Flying pig?!!!

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 22:11

I think AJ's idea is a great one. This is an incident you just need to smooth over.

And QS yes I know they were both asked tp go out when it was raining heavily. But you know people go outside all the time when it is raining very heavily. As long as you have a coat I don't see an issue. Not pleasant to do, but R.

lesley33 · 01/02/2011 22:18

But then my mum had no truck with anyone avoiding going out because of the rain. You are waterproof you know, she would always say if anyone even suggested it was raining too hard.

SarahTonin · 01/02/2011 22:34

Watch out WnW - don't be getting ideas about ordering out. Next thing we know you'll be back on here telling us about the face on HR Lady when a Schezuan Buffet for 9 turned up closely followed by a skip and enough deep pan pizzas to turf the car park. Hope it goes well for you, fingers crossed it was a flash of anger and she is feeling a bit sheepish now herself? What is she generally like?

QueenStromba · 01/02/2011 22:34

If it's raining when you set off from home then you can bring a change of clothes for when you get into the office and if you haven't it's your own stupid fault. If it's raining on the way home then it's not too bad because you can dry off. Either way the journey was necessary. Asking someone to go out in the pouring rain in the middle of the day who will then probably have to sit there damp for the rest of the day is highly unreasonable as far as I'm concerned. I really must thank nasty middle management like you lesley33 - if most managers in office environments were actually nice and reasonable then I might not have gone and got my degree.

ajandjjmum · 01/02/2011 22:40

I suspect QueenStromba that most offices might imagine they would be better off without you.

QueenStromba · 01/02/2011 22:48

Because I don't think it's reasonable to expect somebody to walk for 20 minutes in the pouring rain? I used to temp a lot and most of the places I worked at were sorry when the person I was covering for came back. In my last office job I got two pay rises in my first 6 weeks because I was managing to do the jobs of at least two people - any office that doesn't have an idiot for a manager would be happy to have me.

LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake · 01/02/2011 22:50

There is no way on earth I would go out in awful weather not properly attired.

If they had planned it then I would have come in with proper coat/ scarf/ brolly.

Without knowing I would drive to the office in a suit and blouse with no coat.

The HR person who didn't plan it shouldn't ask someone to go out in foul weather at short notice.

If it was me I would offer to ring for a takeaway or get someone else to get it. But i would not have gone.

ajandjjmum · 01/02/2011 22:54

No QueenStromba - I think we all have different opinions about whether going out in the rain is acceptable. But from the general attack on 'nasty middle management like you lesley' - I think that says more about you than it does lesley. Not sure what she said that caused that little outburst.

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