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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be upset that my ds swimming instructor pushed him under water

75 replies

roseability · 31/01/2011 20:16

My ds does swimming lessons, he is 4.11

He is very unsure about the water so I thought lessons would help him

When I say lessons, I expected them to be quite laid back as he is only 4

It is a lady that takes his lesson but sometimes a guy does some group stuff at the start then he takes another more advanced group

I have seen him badgering my ds to put his head under water before and today he just dunked him right under without proper warning. My ds looked like he was going to cry but I was in the water nearby and mouthed 'are you okay?'. He seemed reassured so I resisted the urge to go and punch this guy

After lesson woman comes up and asks if my ds enjoys the lessons as he is quite and doesn't take her on.

Well I let her know I wasn't happy about what the guy did and she said 'yes he pushes them more than I do'

WTF! They are 4 and I told her that might be why he isn't enjoying them as much as he should, that he doesn't want to put his head under yet but that is fine - it might take a little longer

My overall point is that I think too much is expected of kids these days. I think I will have words with that guy next week

OP posts:

pleasechange · 01/02/2011 08:39

barmbrack, your point is exactly the comparison I was making, that it's very different from babies because clearly they're being taught to know when to hold their breath to prepare from a very early age, and also haven't learned fear in the way a 4yo has

whatdoiknowanyway · 01/02/2011 08:52

My dc teach swimming. The lessons are part of a competitive swimming club so there is a lot of emphasis on correct strokes and building confidence.

Forcing a child to put head underwater is just wrong.

There are many good swim schools but there are also l swim schools with very poor teachers. Just because someone has a teaching qualification does not mean they are an expert - far from it.

bumperella · 01/02/2011 09:08

My swimming teacher -I was about 5 -used to push people in the pool without warning.
I loved swimming lessons until I got that teacher. I can swim (kind of), but can't bear the thought of jumping in off the side of a pool/rock/whatever and absolutely cannot abide anyone walking near me if I'm on (eg) a pier or whatever.
Take your son out of that class and explain to the manager and the teacher exactly why.

CoteDAzur · 01/02/2011 09:18

OP - What does your DS think/say?

If he is not scared to go back to this swimming teacher, I wouldn't take him out. What may have looked like inadequate warning may have been ok (if unpleasant at first) to him. If he wasn't spluttering and panicking when he came out, then he must have had adequate warning to take a deep breath and hold it in as he went down.

Do complain if you feel it is necessary, but your DS might already be over the hardest part.

We live by the sea in a warm Mediterranean climate. DD has been going to swimming class once a week since she was 12 months. Yet last summer, at the age of almost 5, she couldn't stay afloat and would sink like a stone without a belt or armbands.

I took her to a more "forceful" teacher last summer and she was swimming after four lessons and getting stones from the bottom of the pool in a week

CoteDAzur · 01/02/2011 09:23

A friend has been following Diaper Dolphins method (search on YouTube for videos) with his kids, and they are brilliant swimmers. I started doing it with DS last summer when he was 13 months and it works well.

The idea is that you say 1-2-3, bounce him once, and dunk baby under water. They are perfectly capable of holding their breath and come out fine (if a bit dazed). Once they see they are can hold their breath, they are no longer afraid of putting their heads under water and the problem becomes keeping them alive because all they want to do is jump into the pool.

Original poster

roseability · 01/02/2011 13:33

well to be fair he wasn't coughing and spluttering but he looked so upset. His bottom lip was down and he was fighting tears, he did look shocked tbh.

Sorry I'm going to follow my instinct with this. My boy is quiet, shy and thoughtful and I hate the preconception some have that boys are boisterous, loud and confident (although nothing wrong with this either). The man in question was a huge muscular brute and must have seemed terrifying to my ds. He has been getting on at my ds in previous lessons as well. I strongly get the sense that because my boy is the least confident in his class and consistently refused to put his head under, this man singled him out and bullied him.

A strong letter of complaint has been sent to the manager of the leisure centre and also the council that employ him. My ds beamed when I offered him the alternative of fun swimming, just me and his sister. He also liked the idea of the fin, so that shold entice him back into the water as a fun idea e.g. pretending to be sharks

At the end of the day he is four and monday mornings were becoming stressful. I thank you for good advice and my son will not be going back there

OP posts:

Original poster

roseability · 01/02/2011 13:37

It is also a fact that some people feel compelled to bully children because they are damaged themselves. Not all people that work with children are sweetness and light. I know what I saw and I didn't like it

OP posts:

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 01/02/2011 13:39

Well done Rose I hope your son learns to enjoy swimming and having FUN in the water. If you can update us on the leisure centre's response. Sometimes you just have to trust your gut feeling.

Original poster

roseability · 01/02/2011 13:40

another thing - I am actually a strong and confident swimmer. However if someone much bigger than me picked me up and submerged me without much warning, I would find it a little frightening

OP posts:

crapbarry · 01/02/2011 13:46

my mum was pushed into the pool at the deep end when she was doing swimming lessons as a child (by the instructor) - she is STILL terrified of swimming and pools ~50 years later, and as a result my siblings and I are all wary of pools because of her fear. Hope your DS is OK and this man is dealt with properly by his superiors.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 01/02/2011 15:56

Our swimming teacher was a bully also, she used to push people into the water... but she also got results. She hated 'namby pamby' children who wouldn't try and wouldn't follow her instructions.

I'm not saying it's right, it was certainly an ordeal, but I think there's a fine line between bullying and mollycoddling... children must learn to swim.

kepler10b · 01/02/2011 16:21

i know a couple of swimming teachers and both of them do this - the male more than the female. he has great success. molly coddling tends to make the water phobia worse. if you don't like it then take him out of the lessons but i wouldn't undermine his instructional technique. tbh a better reaction by you would have to have smiled and given him a thumbs up - your nervous response would only make him think there was something to be scared of. if this is how the teacher wants to instruct it is up to him and he can't have different rules for different children as that just wouldn't work. your only option is to withdraw your child but i think he'd be missing out.

kepler10b · 01/02/2011 16:26

to those who say being pushed into pool created fear of water...well i was never pushed into a pool but had namby pamby teachers and i still don't like getting my head under and am a weak swimmer.

Original poster

roseability · 01/02/2011 16:53

but kepler I didn't give him a nervous response but more of a concerned one, a simple 'are you okay'

Because he was visibly upset and this was a natural reaction because I love him

It was also a reaction that said it is not okay for people to force you to do something you don't want to and hopefully one which will teach him confidence to know when he has been mistreated and to trust that instinct

It is not mollycoddling just basic repsect for a child's boundaries.

That in my opinion is just a valuable lesson to learn as swimming

OP posts:

Original poster

roseability · 01/02/2011 17:00

Well I can make a clear distinction between what is bullying and what is good teaching and confidence building. An abusive childhood taught me that.

My son does not want to go back to those lessons, so this 'instructional technique' didn't work did it?

I want my son to be able to swim but this has actually set him back

OP posts:

southmum · 01/02/2011 17:48

yanbu

Im terrified of swimming caused by my school swimming teacher keeping that pole they use just out of my reach and I went under, panicked and couldn't breathe.

Ive never forgotten that.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 01/02/2011 17:57

Kepler... that is a good response I think, a 'thumbs up' would have reassured a child.

I find that children often don't want to do something or try something and they need proper encouragement. A child's boundaries are set by the parents not the child. I really believe that.

You sound a bit defensive, roseability, you don't need to, nobody's slating you even if they don't agree with you. Everybody's got their own style of parenting.

cumfy · 01/02/2011 18:42

your DS had this bad experience.

I think his main teacher whom he trusts should have had responsibility for this big step.

When I was learning as a kid, it was all done with one whole lesson dedicated to it, and so the whole class could manage at the end. We were sort of "forced" (I wasn't that keen TBH) :o just gently and progressively. Didn't look back after I got over that hurdle though.

It is a key step, and should be handled progressively and compassionately; not just shoved under by some Biffa Bacon twat.

I think the key now is to revisit head dipping asap, but make sure it's done properly and that he doesn't develop a "phobia".

Original poster

roseability · 01/02/2011 18:45

well if 'proper encouragement' constitutes breaking a child's trust its not for me

I am not defensive just strongly disagreeing with you

A child's boundary is clear when he/she says I don't want to go under the water. To then do it regardless is crossing that boundary and my son's reaction made that clear.

Not my type of parenting but then we will just have to agree to disagree

OP posts:

edam · 01/02/2011 18:58

Old-fashioned types who think you can frighten or bully children into learning a skill are plain wrong. And there are thousands of studies to prove it.

Funny how people who think fear and physical force are appropriate teaching methods rarely volunteer to be the victims themselves.

I suffered from swimming teachers like this. Nasty bullies who would dunk you or push you in without warning. First at primary school - ended up with a fear of swimming. Tried lessons again as a teenager only unfortunately the teacher was of the same breed (and a bit pervy, too - these days he wouldn't be allowed to work with kids).

Result is I can't swim, hate swimming and have a real fear of floating (get all panicky if I'm not standing). Tried again in early adulthood and just managed to float, couldn't get past that.

edam · 01/02/2011 18:58

Meant to say, well done roseability on writing a complaint, do hope you get a satisfactory answer.

cumfy · 01/02/2011 19:04

Are you OK going underwater roseability ?

Original poster

roseability · 01/02/2011 19:30

I am a strong and confident swimmer and love diving to the bottom of the pool

I used to take ds swimming when he was a baby/toddler but he would always cling to me whilst others were running around and shooting down the slides. I do wonder where his lack of confidence stemmed from. I don't remember being over protective as I love the water myself

As I mentioned earlier his sister who is 19 months is unbelievable in the water. She goes under, down slides and splashes around. I try to think what I did differently

I do think ds was never really that into swimming and we lost interest for a while and there was a long spell where we only went sporadically

OP posts:

pointythings · 01/02/2011 20:56

All those who have used the word 'mollycoddling' to defend this teacher's methods - have a .

Both my DDs learned to swim and were never, never ducked. It's completely unnecessary and outdated 'teaching' technique.

I was never ducked either, and I learned to swim in the early 70s.

My DDs and I are all very strong and confident swimmers who happily spend more time underwater than above it.

Roseability, take him out, get a refund and find him some teaching that isn't stone age.

edam · 01/02/2011 21:19

Rose, I don't think you should assume ds not being automatically at ease with swimming is down to anything you have done or not done. He's just a different character to dd. Unfortunate that he's now come up against an unpleasant and stupid teacher but good that you've realised and can make sure he doesn't have to put up with any more of this rubbish treatment.

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