To imagine what a world would be like if everything was baby/child led?

[schmee]

The recent heated debate about baby routines - where some people are fervently advocating just following your baby in all matters - led me to think: what if we just followed what our children want?

For me that would mean one of my four year olds surviving on eight hours sleep, eating nothing but cheddar cheese and sugar lumps and continuing to cr*p in his pants because playing is more interesting than going to the loo.

I think the other one would generally be ok, but would probably still snatch and hoard every toy he saw and would sleep in my bed under a mountain of toy cars and trains. He would also poo in my husband's shoes which was his preference as a toddler.

For me that would have meant going outside to play with my two year old at 2 am, when she wanted to do this, and feeding her nothing but chocolate, icecream and yoghurt.

That sounds like fun Unwind - I'm coming round to this babyled way of thinking!

It would be a pile of pants, that's what.

I'm no Gina but I'm definitely a Regulator not a Facilitator.

My kids are very happy chilled kids surprisingly as the baby-led lot would have you think they must somehow be miserable.

Baby led my arse. Not under this roof.

on a more serious note, i'd say it's already happening right under our noses. plenty of children grow up exclusively eating crap food that they want, watching TV and nagging until they get a DS. some turn up at reception in nappies.

It would also mean taking her out for a walk with bare legs, welly boots, and no coat.

What a horrible thought. Child centred not in this house.

Having seen some of the responses on here to problems people have, we are creating a generation of children who will want and expect it all their own way.

No wonder teachers have a bloody hard job getting any respect or obedience out of kids.

Some turn up in reception in nappies because they have a disability that means they are developmentally delayed. My Ds2 is one of them, as was my Ds1.
As for the rest, I'd say it was a matter of balance and teaching the child right from wrong.

I don't think I've read the specific thread that sparked this and don't rear DD by instructions in any "baby books", Gina Ford or Dr Sears, so may be missing the point but...

Doesn't parenting in a way that is "baby-led" or "child-centred" mean focusing on and responding to their needs rather than what they want (or say they want)?

obviously children may wear nappies for a legitimate reason, as may adults.

in general though i'd say the boundaries between parent and child have been coming down in society, so that children call more of the shots than they would have in the past, for better and worse.

Togarama - my understanding of baby-led or child-centred ways of doing things means that you follow your child's cues. I suppose how you interpret what is a cue for something they need or something that they just want is a matter of individual judgement.

Hoping not to get into the argument again, but thinking about how it would work if you just continued to follow your child's cues without exercising your judgement about what was right or wrong... And thinking that in my household this would have some fairly funny results.

Playdough for tea again anyone?

Totally agree chandellina

It pisses me off when parents say "Oh little Danny/Danni simply wont sit in their buggy" or they "Simply refuse to hold my hand when walking along"

Sorry but you don't get your own way in this house. If they're told to sit in the buggy or hold my hand...that's exactly what's going to happen without compromise.

Oh hell it would be chaos!

DD1 would spend the day in her pyjamas listening to music and playing on her iPod.

DD2 would not get dressed properly, choosing instead to wear her pirate outfit and watch back-to-back Something Special or Me Too

DD3 would wear a swimsuit, tutu and wellies and eat nothing but cheese.

We'd never leave the house again, none of them would bathe and bedtime would be non-existent so I would have hideously overtired and whingeing children.

no thank you - I'm all for compromise and negotiation but ultimately I'm the boss.

'Child centred' means putting the welfare of the child at the centre of what you do.

It doesn't mean allowing the child to do what-ever they want, as this wouldn't be putting the child's needs first.

'Baby led' when it comes to weaning, potty training or breastfeeding simply means taking into account the baby's developmental stage when it comes to feeding and toileting them.

It's pretty futile trying to potty train a child who doesn't have enough control over their bowels and bladder to hold on when they need to go, or who is too young to signal that they need to go to the toilet.

Cleofartra - we are imagining what might happen if you took the idea to an extreme...

"No wonder teachers have a bloody hard job getting any respect or obedience out of kids"

What rubbish.

The most difficult children at school are those who come from chaotic households, who are not listened to, spoken to or given the attention they need.

The best behaved and most co-operative children are those who've been treated with kindness and given a lot of attention. And those who see the adults who care for them at home behaving with respect and courtesy to each other.

Well in my house....

DS1 would never go to work and would sit around the house all day eating Brevilles and jaffa cakes...and driving us all mad with that 'tinny' sound coming from his I-Pod earphones.

DS2 would actually still go to school (couldn't keep him away) but would then come home and permanantly attach himself to the X-Box...surrounded by a diet of M&Ms and Pizza.

DS3 would turn the inside of the house into a huge football pitch and bounced the ball off of every ornament and lamp we own...he would sleep in his clothes (and boots) and live on a diet of Pizza, chicken wings and sherbet

"Cleofartra - we are imagining what might happen if you took the idea to an extreme..."

If you took the idea to the extreme what you wouldn't have would be children making all their own decisions and running wild. Because that wouldn't be in the best interests of the child.

On the other hand a society which was truly 'child centred' would spend the bulk of its tax revenue on education, give both parents a whole year's fully paid maternity/paternity leave, would make smacking illegal and would make it illegal for children to live in unsanitary or over crowded accommodation.

Sounds good to me!

I don't think anyone here is going argue that you shouldn't show your child kindness and give them attention. I suppose a bigger question is when you start to help them understand boundaries, and whether you are willing to take the lead in helping them to understand how to live in society.

But I do think we credit very tiny people with an astounding amount of self-knowledge...

Personally I'd love to let my kids be the boss most of the time - imagine never having to try to persuade them to do the right thing. Imagine being able to spend the whole day eating harribos and cheese and watching Captain Mack. Imagine never having to put them into time out for hitting because they are expressing some inner need.

Unfortunately they would grow up to be terrible adults and in the meantime as Sidge says, would be screaming overtired messes with a mother in the same condition..

I totally agree with Cleofartra.

Many UK home educators do have child-centred homes and consensus living. It is often called autonomous education (in case anyone wants to Google it). My DC were raised in such an environmment and I can say that it was not chaotic - if children have a variety of foods and activities freely available, they do not eat chocolate and watch TV the whole time.

When a family is together most of the time, without the children spending 30 hours out of the house without choice, it is vital to ensure that everyone's needs are met. It's no good mum being a doormat - you can keep that up for a short time, but not for 18+ years.

I beg to differ re: *The most difficult children at school are those who come from chaotic households, who are not listened to, spoken to or given the attention they need.

The best behaved and most co-operative children are those who've been treated with kindness and given a lot of attention. And those who see the adults who care for them at home behaving with respect and courtesy to each other.*

I work in school and the worst behaved by far are the ones who have had loads of attention as they expect that at school and tend to be whingey and unreasonable if they don't get it. Some of the best behaved are those from highly dysfunctional families as they crave the order of school.

I'd say a bit of middle ground is more sensible.

And I'd hate to live in 'Babyland'! By all means other people can be led by their offspring - so long as I'm not expected to play along.

Schmee, the thing is that you do have to deal with bad behaviour - because it is usually affecting someone else. The hitting child might not be happy and is certainly making someone else unhappy. It is so much easier to deal with, however, if you have time and are not being forced into complying with an external agenda.

Being child-centred does not mean letting "my kids be the boss most of the time".

We're baby led and child led in this house. This doesn't mean we don't have rules and boundaries though. It's just the rules and boundaries are centred around the child's best interests.

Aha - this was meant to be a jokey thread then?

In that case, we would all run round naked except for novelty wellies, spend most of the day dancing to Disney videos on Youtube and dine on hummus straight from the carton with our fingers.

2 year old DD quite likes tidying up, cleaning and helping with the washing so I think that the house wouldn't look too bad overall.