to think you shouldn't drink milk if you won't eat veal?

[PlasticLentilWeaver]

I don't mean crate reared continental veal, but British rose veal.

It's a by-product of the dairy industry. Without calves, there's no milk. Surely it is better to rear surplus dairy bull calves for veal in the UK than to slaughter within days of birth or export to the continent?

Veal calves live just as long as lambs, or bacon pigs, and way longer than chickens, so it isn't about duration of lifespan.

So to my way of thinking, if people want to drink milk, they should also be prepared to eat the other output of the production process. Or AIBU?

The point is that male dairy calves are slaughtered, valium and garcons, so never get to be adults.

SO if you drink milk you are condoning the slaughter of male dairy calves

And slaughtered male dairy calves = veal

Each cow has to have a calf in order to produce milk.
Female calves can be kept, as they grow into cows who produce more milk.
Male calves do not produce milk. Rearing them costs the farmer, so male calves are routinely killed within a very short while of birth.
Raising the male calves for veal means that the farmer can recoup the costs of raising the males, and also gives the calves a longer life.

If you drink milk, you have to accept that male calves are an unwanted by-product. Eating them as veal seems ethically less wasteful than just killing them at birth.

I don't like veal. Does that mean I can't drink milk?

Oh FFS, another thread about evil vegetarians with mixed morals. Yawn.

I only drink organic milk from companies where the male calves are allowed to suckle (yeo valley and rachel's have good policies) from their mums for a decent time before being separated. I would happily eat organic veal and you've reminded me to ask my butcher if he stocks it.

It's desperately sad that the demand for cheap milk has led to the breeding of high-yield x-breeds, and the calves are shot or transported without any real time with their mums. Wasteful and disrespectful to the animals.

I thought that most people denounce veal as cruel because of the conditions veal calves were kept in. I think this is still the case in people's minds even if it is no longer true of all veal.

SoupDragon you're thinking of continental veal.

YABU. It is none of your business where people decide to draw their own line.

What is this, everyone pick on vegetarians week?

No, taintedpaint not specifically aimed at veggies at all. It was actually a meat eater saying 'oh but I wouldn't eat veal' in a self-righteous, my morals are better than yours tone, that triggered it.

I am the first to admit I could not go 100% veggie, but I eat very little meat, and try to think hard about the ethics of my dietary choices.

Soupdragon's point is that MOST people are thinking of continental veal when they hear veal

and I agree

what do you care if people drink milk but don't eat veal? I like peanuts but only with chocolate, is that ok? or should I be having a few slices of veal with it to make it fairer?

Bonkers

No, I'm thinking of when the fuss about conditions for veal calves was new many years ago and commenting that that is what people have in mind when they think of veal. They apply it to all veal.

And I wasn't aware it was pick on a vegetarian week, or that there was such a thing. I'm reading the mobile version of MN, so I don't see all threads, but take it personally if you want.

xpost with roland.

YABU. I'll eat and drink what I like thanks. Nothing to do with you.

roland the question is are people really aware of what happens to male dairy calves?

Are people aware that when they buy milk they are supporting an industry that must kill male diary calves at a very very young age?

roland that's illogical. I would have no issue with someone not eating something because they don't like it, and I have nowhere said that veal should be eaten with everything.

Maybe I just think people should be better educated about their food. And actually, that would probably lead to more veggies, for those who think I am bashing them.

"Are people aware that when they buy milk they are supporting an industry that must kill male diary calves at a very very young age?"

Well, that is surely only an issue for a vegetarian.

GIven that most people who drink milk also eat meat, it is not really an issue that an animal has been killed.

I no longer understand what the OP means TBH.

In a way, soupdragon, but a lot of people who eat some types of meat, would NEVER eat veal.

And I think that a lot of people who would NEVER eat veal, drink milk.

Therefore, they either aren't aware of the link, or are aware and are being hypocritical

Yes, but most people still equate veal with crates and cruelty. That's why, I think, they avoid it.

So, it's just a matter of ignorance then, I guess.

Eeyore, can I have your veal? Mmm, delicious!

Agree with soup - I cooked veal for friends once (didn't think about it I'm afraid) and they refused to eat it because of 'the cruelty issue'. I got a long lecture about how the animals are tied so they can't move to keep the meat white and tender ... it was very odd, since the meat on their plates was very clearly not the meat of an animal that hadn't moved!

I am a cynic, but this argument seems sometimes to reduce to: 'Ooh, baby calves! Cute! Must not be killed without reason' and 'Mummy cows! They like having masses of babies and a bullet through the head at age 5 ... besides, they're not cute like the babies.'

Not ignorance as such (which seems harsh) but misinformed. The campaign about cruel crates was huge at the time but there's not really been anything about more humane methods.

Lets expand the whole argument!!

lets not eat chickens and eggs. Males are not needed, they are slaughtered.

If anyone fancies eating one,(why should we be picky) I have a freezer full, along with a few unwanted rats and a few male quails.

OK, misinformed!