to think that surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie?

[LadyOfTheManor]

Seriously, unless you're a miner or from a mining family, or Welsh... ok well even if you are, surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie T?

I'm a tad young, I was born in her "reign", but I did my degree in Politics and although I didn't really live under her (it was Major until I was 11) I couldn't see what she did that was SO terrible-let alone the sheer hostility when her name is mentioned here (in Wales!).

tbh, and I never would have voted for her and thought she was awful at the time, but in retrospect I think she did very necessary and good things for the economy and society; she freed many many things up from a large number of unhelpful constraints.

Hard to say that because I come from a diehard leftwing background, but I still think Thatcher did necessary things and net good.

As an American who came of age during the Ronald Reagan presidency, I was astonished at the nice things people said upon his death. He was God Awful in almost every way. Other than drag the American political right wing into negotiations with the USSR and genuine efforts at nuclear disarmament, RR did no net good.

The rates system went on the size/value of your house. The Poll tax was a tax on people irrespective of income, low income families with older teenagers at home were hit very hard. The tax per person was the same whether you lived in a mansion on on an estate in Manchester.

Maggie was and is our hero(ine). We remember the winter of discontent and Healey's begging bowl at the IMF. She put the B back in Britain - she turned this country round. And labour then destoyed it, just like they did in the 1970's. Blair was handed a repaired economy and the labour party destroyed it - yet again. Just like in 1979 it will take years to put right again.

Dr Northener - the tax was NOT the same. When I owned a two bed modern flat in Putney I paid 443 in rates - when I owned a 3 bed house in Putney I paid 228 in rates. I was one person, no children, using almost no services. In a larger property I paid less than in a smaller one. The system had to change - it was unfair. Why should a family of four in a three bed house ever pay less than a single person in a two bed flat?

I despise what she stood for.

Harpsichordcarrier and Ivanhoe need an ip crosscheck, they're using the same //////!!!!

Anyway, why shouldn't device costs be apportioned per user? Why should a pensioner living in her family house be charged the same as a family of 7 living in the same street. If we paid for what we used then we would not have hit the level of waste that we are currently encountering.

The flipside of that, though, is:

My friends live in a typical size older 3 bed terrace house. Typically, a house like that nowadays would have 2 occupants.

My friends constitute a 7 person family.
So the effectively get a massive rebate on their council tax (compared to a community charge system), by choosing to cram into a smaller house.

Is that fair?

they get a rebate.... (we need an edit button, sob).

They do local income tax in Belgium. I think that is fairer. You pay according to your means, it is taken at source.

She did not destroy manufacturing...it went up during her premiership

'Anyway, why shouldn't device costs be apportioned per user? Why should a pensioner living in her family house be charged the same as a family of 7 living in the same street.'
Good idea, try it again.
Last two times that oppressive governments tried the poll tax there was rioting in the streets.

Regarding poll tax, it was the same per head in each local authority as councils set their own rate, so as a result large families living in small houses saw a huge increase and small families, or single folk and couples living in huge properties saved ££££££.

I never cease to be amazed how the British people always lose sight of the bigger and wider picture when talking about taxation in this country and who pays what ?

The above are two examples.

The bottom line is that the only fair tax is income tax, and the council tax needs to be abolished in favour of a local taxed based on ability to pay.

This way people pay tax according to what they earn.

The "why should they / we" brigade always fall into the devide and conquer trap

Blimey, can't believe there are STILL people demanding the return of the poll tax. Because it went so terribly, terribly well last time... right.

Thatcher was a remorseless and truly wicked PM - in the oldest sense of the word. She was savage. She has thousands, if not tens of thousands, of deaths on her conscience and is responsible for more misery than any other leader of this country in the 20th century - with the possible exception of Baldwin.

She would have scorned her apologists on this thread. She had no time for civility or humanity. Hers was a short-sighted, cruel government, that penny pinched by reducing the garrison on the Falklands despite knowing full well it would invite the Argentinians to invade, then pretended sending British servicemen out to die was somehow patriotic and glorious. Against a bunch of conscripts living under a dictatorship! Some of whom were sailing AWAY from the exclusion zone at the time. Much she cared.

She supported apartheid S Africa, and her husband made plenty of money out of the suffering of Black Africans.

pascoe, forgive me if I don't take the unsubstantiated word of a random website....

//////They do local income tax in Belgium. I think that is fairer. You pay according to your means, it is taken at source./////

Across the EU vital local services are all funded by direct taxation, and a greater role of the State.

Britain's local services have been crassly underfunded via direct taxation for decades, and this has lead to higher local council bills which hurt the poor the most.

One thing that really bound Mrs T and Ronald Reagan together was their fundamental belief that the state should not interfere in your life any more than absolutely necessary.

Both were keen libertarians and I think Ronald Reagan summed it up rather well:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Socialism believes that it should interefere in every part of our lives.

/////////edam Fri 28-Jan-11 20:23:43
Blimey, can't believe there are STILL people demanding the return of the poll tax. Because it went so terribly, terribly well last time... right.

Thatcher was a remorseless and truly wicked PM - in the oldest sense of the word. She was savage. She has thousands, if not tens of thousands, of deaths on her conscience and is responsible for more misery than any other leader of this country in the 20th century - with the possible exception of Baldwin.

She would have scorned her apologists on this thread. She had no time for civility or humanity. Hers was a short-sighted, cruel government, that penny pinched by reducing the garrison on the Falklands despite knowing full well it would invite the Argentinians to invade, then pretended sending British servicemen out to die was somehow patriotic and glorious. Against a bunch of conscripts living under a dictatorship! Some of whom were sailing AWAY from the exclusion zone at the time. Much she cared.

She supported apartheid S Africa, and her husband made plenty of money out of the suffering of Black Africans.///////

Some British people are just "thick".

There has to be an incentive to earn more, income tax does not provide that incentive. If all your hard worked for overtime is heavily taxed then there is no incentive to do it.

Ivanhoe, are you HarpsichordCarrier?

grace that collective society was broken - nationalisation was killing UK industry - look what happened to Leyland!

Some of those businesses that were draining the public purse whilst govt run went on to be profit-making in the private sector - BT a orie example.

Nationalisation was a disaster for the UK. Undoing it was one of MT's best works.

and just which post-war PM would have done otheriwse over The Falklands? (rather than leaving thousands if UK citizens prey to a dictatorship with a shocking human rights record?)

The picture painted of the pre-1979 years is rose-tinted beyond belief!

and don't get me started on the `1960s - what a load of crap. we are immeaurably more wealthy as a nation now.

OP, you are a card... (I thought the dare threads had run their course?)

Er, no.

I was wondering the same thing

you were wondering if I was ivanhoe???
WTF?????

the poll tax may have been in error, however people accepted the effective doubling of its replacement during the Blair years...

council tax is pretty unfair too. i would favour a loca income tax - might be hard to administer though.

Well either Harpsichord or Ivanhoe explain to me the significance of /////// because you are the only posters ever to have used it?