to think that surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie?

[LadyOfTheManor]

Seriously, unless you're a miner or from a mining family, or Welsh... ok well even if you are, surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie T?

I'm a tad young, I was born in her "reign", but I did my degree in Politics and although I didn't really live under her (it was Major until I was 11) I couldn't see what she did that was SO terrible-let alone the sheer hostility when her name is mentioned here (in Wales!).

What should we have done about the Falklands then? Roll over?

Negotiate. Use diplomacy. The amount of troops sent in was total overkill. My dad was one of them.

Thatcher was a brilliant PM and will be remebered as such once the north and west fall into the sea.

I trust they are going to cut jobseekers allowance to pay for her state funeral? It would be good to hear the lament of the poor one more time. I'm finding these latest cuts very unsatisfactory.

Have yet to get to the end of the thread (am on Page 13) but fippin' heck!

One of the biggest criticisms of Labour supporters in the last few years has been 'You take no responsibility for the mess the country is in, for the benefits culture and the financia crisis' yet how many Tories have, on this thread. said 'How can Thatcher be responsible for the 'me, me, me' culture and homelessness'.

Pot, meet kettle....

Ideologies take a short time to implement and years to undo.

I hate Maggie. Add me to the 'everyone' list please.

Was there any cracking open of champagne and dancing when Saddam Hussein or the Ayatollah Khomeini died?

I just can't seem to identify with the ideology of the "yuppie" e.t.c. that she seemed to promote. The grasping, money-minded, fuck-the-poor outlook.
No matter how well my husband and I do for ourselves I am constantly conscious of those living not too far away from us who have nothing and stand to lose even more. As I said previously, I work with young people and their prospects, particularly in this recent environment are grim to say the least. I would urge everyone to realise that there but for the grace of God go their own children. Most people are only a job loss away from severe financial trouble and the lifeboats are being drawn up. Just because the problem doesn't affect you right now, doesn't mean that it won't!

ifancyashandy I'm inclined to agree that policies are not as easily undone. But the biggest problems politicians face is getting results of policies within their 4 year term. Quite often the benefits or downsides take longer to filter through. For example: education reforms could take 20 years withlenty of variables thrown into the mix in the meantime.

With plenty *

Oh goodness, where to start?

-While campaigning on her status as a grocer's daughter, she was a millionaire who moved the burden of taxation fromthe rich to the poor (VAT went from 8% to 17.5%) accompanied by income tax cuts.

-Stopped free milk in schools

-Anti-smoking campaigner who then went on the board for BAT

-Championing of Victorian morality (despite worshipping the likes of Cecil parkinson, Archer, Alan Clark etc etc)

-racism particularly when campaigning eg, direct quote 'We are getting flooded' when discussing immigration.

-And this myth of her being a 'strong' leader...see numerous gigantic U-turns (Europe, tax, monetarism)

And that's before I get on to the Falklands debacle, the miner's strike, dismantling of the NHS and public sector as wholesale sell-off to her mates in the private sector.

Saddam Hossein was executed, so not really comparable. I was delighted when he was removed from power but no, I wasn't pleased when he was put to death.

Ayatollah K died of old age/natural causes and I didn't do a dance of joy, no, but I didn't exactly mourn his death either. I think he was responsible ,directly and indirectly, for a great deal of hatred and violence and his legacy of violence continues today.

Maggie ... well, the damage she did was wilful and deliberate, it was done to the people and the places that I love and to my 'home'; we are bound to feel more connected, and more angry about the people closer to us, about the horrible damage wreaked on our OWN country rather than others.
that's normal imo

CCPCCP I rather fancy you claim Jobseeker's Allowance yourself and are waging an ironic war in the name of all that is wrong with attitudes like those you purport to hold.

I was born and grew up in a Britain that had just acquired the NHS and was wholly invested in good health for every citizen. It was a country that accepted collective responsibility for itself and all its people.

Remote villages had bus & train services that could never be profitable in themselves, but the users of busy lines accepted responsibility for sharing the profits from their journeys to provide transport to others.

The gas, oil and electricity that came from our territories was OWNED by each one of us. So were the phone services, transport systems and a huge amount of pulic buildings, parks and forests. Every school had playing fields. Community services were taken for granted, and welcome.

Margaret Thatcher sold what we owned, without giving us the revenues. She turned a nation of stakeholders into a nation divided into owners and the dispossessed. Her stated mission was to break the collective society; she succeeded.

For those too young to know, two of her defining statements were: There is no such thing as society and The weak shall go to the wall. I think we're still seeing those policies in action.

Change was needed at that time. We got change, all right, but it was a destreuctive change imo.

Exactly, Grace. I really could not have put it better myself.

Cheers :) I shouldn't have called Britain "a country", obv.

What Grace said...

Star anise, being concerned about immigration does not make anyone a racist!

She was opposed to cutting school milk, see my earlier post. Why does everyone get so upset about milk that was wasted by 70% of pupils anyway?

Anti smoking, she was in charge of a health service that was picking up the pieces of smoking damage. BAT directorship = smart move for lots of knowledge.

Strong leader, situations change and compromises have to be met, she was stronger than any previous or subsequent leader with far higher turnout than anyone since.

Vat is a far cheaper way of collecting revenue than the bloated hmrc, it also ensures that non doms pour into the pot from a great height.

oh what a bunch of very well balanced charming people you are. Hopefully your kids have more sense. Doubt it though, a life on the social I'm guessing? Or "working" in some part of the client state which the rest of have to pay for.

oh what Grace said in spades x

Spooky!

well explained Grace.

Gas is not paid at full vat rate! It's a far lower, nominal, rate.

Vat does not cover food or childrens clothing. They are necessities. The basics should be vat free and they are. Everything else is a "spend choice" .

Remember that vat was introduced to keep in line with Europe...another diktat from the common Market.