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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to throw choke chain owning people in the gallows..

101 replies

Spanky100 · 27/01/2011 15:28

Makes me so angry
Angry

OP posts:
brightlightsandpromises · 27/01/2011 18:12

well electric collars, at low frequency shodulnt cause actual pain. Trouble is if you were to have squirted water at my dogs they would be saying "waaaahooooo, play time" Grin They were both pretty good on the lead though. I did once make the mistake of putting my rottie on a flexi lead, was walking along unmade road with him and kiddy came around corner on bike, wuss dog bolted in other direction after DP and of course being on flexi lead, me on other end of it - i had my first flying lesson, into a concrete post - not good

Original poster
Spanky100 · 27/01/2011 18:13

'to keep a dog on a lead where they are just taking up the slack, if they pull quickly losen off the slack and turn round and walk the other way, this way the dog kind of falls over itself almost as it would have been "leaning" on the lead if pulling, that works really well. That or just stopping every time the dog pulls, they soon learn that pulling isn't going to get them anywhere'

Why not just stick to that then instead of electric shocking and choking Confused

OP posts:
hephaestus · 27/01/2011 18:14

An excellent, positive reinforcement method for loose-lead training: silky leash method

Couple that with a sound 'watch me' command and pocket full of chicken and there's few dogs who won't pick it up.

hephaestus · 27/01/2011 18:20

"Why not just stick to that then instead of electric shocking and choking"

Because not all dogs are malleable, biddable puppies learning all this for the first time.

Positive reinforcement is the ideal but when you've got an adult large-breed dog that has never walked on a lead before and is intent on nailing every dog and/or person that comes their way, if a choke chain allows their handler to retain some semblance of control until training takes effect, so be it.

PrettyCandles · 27/01/2011 18:23

I can see that choke chains could be inhmane if used badly, but then so could many things. I don't see that they are out-and-out evil. We had a large boxer when I was a teen, and we always walked him on the chain. Made sure it was always rhe right way up. Would never have done anything to cause him harm!

He would have hated a halti, and I think it would have been much mOre likely to harm him than the chain when he was bouncing around.

With the chain we found that the noise it made when you gave it a jerk was often all that was necessary to check him. We did not need to yank it choke-tight to check him.

Damning all choke chains because of irresponsible owners is like damning all Rottweilers because of irresponsible owners.

Original poster
Spanky100 · 27/01/2011 18:28

'Made sure it was always rhe right way up. Would never have done anything to cause him harm!'

There's an awful lot of evidence to suggest that even with 'correct' use they cause harm.

OP posts:
brightlightsandpromises · 27/01/2011 18:30

exactly hepheastus - my second rottie was a rescue dog and he had ishooos, i used a training collar/half choke, worked really well, but it took time. I did try the stopping/turning around method with him but it seemed to stress him out. Couldn't use a halti on a rottie though, just hte wrong shaped head. Plus when we first got him i would only take him out muzzled until i was sure of him (he hated that :()

Interestingly, i did try a choke chain with my JR, it was a disaster because of the angle, him being such a short arse and all because you basically have to pull it horizontally to work. We used it only once. Not good.

Rainydaze · 27/01/2011 18:32

brightlightsandpromises electric collars are inhumane. That's why they're illegal in Wales. Hopefully in the rest of the UK too soon.

maryz · 27/01/2011 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MotherJack · 27/01/2011 18:46

I love flexi leads. The dogs I have had on them are well behaved and recall well though.

I don;t think it makes you "scum" brighlights. You just haven't been educated on why they are such a dreadful thing. Have a read of this

weefriend · 27/01/2011 18:52

They are a training tool that can be effective if used correctly. If used correctly they wouldn't be needed beyond a few training sessions. If it needs to be used all the time then it hasn't been used effectively. Slip leads are just the same thing really. I do agree that seeing dogs consistently choking themselves is very upsetting :(

Headcollars can be useful and are a better long term option than a choke but again they must be properly introduced and used correctly or they can cause damage.

Harnesses are what you put on animals that you want to pull! There are some out there that work to stop pulling but only because they cause a lot of pain.

The ideal thing is good training. Unfortunately that takes a lot of time and hard work. Especially if you take on an older dog with ingrained bad habits. So sometimes you have to use the less than ideal option. All you can do is chose the best available option for the combination of you and your dog.

brightlightsandpromises · 27/01/2011 19:03

i know exactly what you are saying motherjack and rainy, but surely if the "shock" was mild enough, it would be better than a choke chain. Maybe a mild shock doesn't work though, so maybe you are right about the collars as anything that causes pain in training can't be a good thing.

MotherJack · 27/01/2011 19:25
is the mild shock given by a collar, brightlights.
Choufleur · 27/01/2011 19:31

We're picking up our new springer tomorrow (he's around 9 months). We took him for a walk from the rescue centre the first time on a slip lead (i take it those are the ones that basically loop through and around the dog's neck). after a 5 min walk his eyes were bloodshot as he pulled so much, but didn't care as he was so excited to be out.

We've bought a semi choke collar so that it tightens a bit but won't continually keep getting tighter (it's also adjusted not to be very tight even when the two bits of the chain come together). He walked on that much better last weekend when we took him for another walk and didn't have bloodshot eyes at the end.

brightlightsandpromises · 27/01/2011 19:32

Sorry but PMSL at that link Grin but yeah, thats too strong! i honestly, obviously niavely, thought that a collar that caused pain woudlnt be legal. Still chortling!!!! Grin

TheMonster · 27/01/2011 19:32

YANBU. I will never use a choke chain.

DooinMeCleanin · 27/01/2011 19:38

Chofleur, you don't need a half check you need

this

this

and this

NB those treats are far cheaper in regular pet shops. I use about half a bag a day with my two, they are 79p in my local pet shop.

MothershipG · 27/01/2011 19:58

Electric shock collars are illegal in Wales but not in England or Scotland.

The Association of Pet Dog trainers will not allow choke chains to be used in their classes, I would be wary of any trainer who recommended them. Shock

If your dog pulls then there are much more effective ways of training it not to.

Also choke chains left on unattended dogs have been know to get caught up and resulted in strangulation. Sad

Choufleur · 27/01/2011 19:58

yes but i need something to stop him wrenching my arm from it's socket in the first place.

MotherJack · 27/01/2011 20:01

Glad I could be of assistance brightlights, and glad you will not be advocating them in future Smile

DooinMeCleanin · 27/01/2011 20:01

A half check will not do that. they are a training collar, not an anti pull collar. They work by you 'correcting' the dog by yanking the chain and choking him when he pulls.

A halti stops pulling and a harness would give you better control of the dog but would not stop the pulling.

MothershipG · 27/01/2011 20:06

Choufleur get a head harness like a gentle-leader or similar, there are loads on the market. Your boy sounds like he'll do himself serious injury if you put a choke on him! Nutty dogs like Springers don't seem to make the connection between pulling and throttling themselves! Smile

hephaestus · 27/01/2011 20:11

A harness will not give more control over the dog, it will just allow it to pull with its entire bodyweight instead of just the neck.

Harnesses are for huskies! -explodes with harness induced rage- Grin

Please see above 'silky leash' link for a good training method, in conjunction with either a flat collar, half-check or, if you must, a headcollar.

Rainydaze · 27/01/2011 20:14

Our dog is a VERY strong foxhound. We used a gentle leader for a short while, but with patience she never pulls anymore. It took about four months. She's gone from literally pulling me over and dragging me across fields (what fun that was!), to understanding what the lead's about and not pulling at all.

We're not dog trainers. We just walked her a lot, used a gentle leader and now she's fine. We have a good padded harness for her.

DooinMeCleanin · 27/01/2011 20:16

A harness works on my terrier, it puts my control point on the strongest part of his body.

He is strange little dog. On his own he walks perfectly, add dog2 to the equation and he is bloody nutcase. I 'correct' him by leading him around in a circle and back to my side when he pulls. When dog2 is with us I have to do this with one hand. It is much easier doing it one handed with the harness than it is with just his flat collar. Plus I feel more like I am guiding him into the correct position as opposeed to dragging him along by his neck.

Maybe this is not true of larger breeds, but with my smaller dog it works.

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