to think MNHQ are inconsistent with deleting posts

[tomhardyismydh]

and to be feeling really aggrieved that after reporting the same very offensive post twice I have had no responce from HQ

yet I had made a fairly inofensive post and it was deleted imediatly once it was reported. (different threads and posters BTW)

over time, both, Eleison.

more recently the media storm has not helped, obviously, and has ben the catalyst for a number of long-standing SN posters to take a break (I am one, clearly not having a break form MN, just form SN)

the inconsistency has always been there, but recent events brought it to a head, I suppose.

I haven't posted in sn for a long time (although I opinionate freely on topics about sn on other parts of the boards), but I agree that it seems to have gone completely mad and all because of the incidents last week tbh.

In the past I have asked for posts to be deleted where truely vile disablist views have been allowed to stand and have been told that "it's a healthy debate" yet if I said the same thing about a black person as some say about the disabled the post would be pulled pretty sharpish.

Surely we should be intolerant of all hateful views of any minority not just the ones that are written in law?

I know that the issue of disabilist posts not being deleted has come up a few times.

If we agree that racist posts should be deleted, then surely disablist post should be too.

The deletes I've had have been like that StewieGriffinsMom.

TBH I dont think telling someone to piss off is a personal insult, but it seems that MNHQ dont agree, and rarely look back to see the nastiness that triggered the reaction.

you should name and shame sgm.

fwiw I don't think telling someone to piss off is a personal attack either, and if people are offended by that then they really should just piss off somewhere else.

I think the problem with the inconsistencies in deletions is that because such vile posts are often left to stand, when posts are deleted people assume that what was said must have been really bad given what else is on the thread, when actually it's often the inocuous posts that have been deleted while the really offensive ones stand..

The inconsistency I have noted is similar to SGM's. On my first foray here, I mistakenly posted about something I was very upset about in AIBU. I had had a very difficult birth and labour and my baby was not feeding/gaining weight - all fairly normal stuff for new mothers, but The World when you are caught up in it for the first time. I can't even remember exactly what I said now - it was something to do with inlaws not wanting to leave the house or let me hold the baby - but it was a bit hysterical, as only a new mum can be. Needless to say I had the usual baptism of fire where I was laughed at, ridiculed, told I should change my name as I would be so ashamed of myself for the pfbishness I was displaying, told I would never cope as a mother, reminded all sorts of Real Things could happen my baby e.g. my baby could die or have a long-term illness etc.

I sat in front of the screen and BAWLED. The most frightening thing, in retrospect, is that I wouldn't let my husband give me the baby when he was crying during this because I felt so ashamed and low.. sort of wild, to be honest. I felt seriously unworthy of my baby because of what a few internet sprites were writing online - how crazy is that? Hormones, I can see now..

Somewhere on the second page, I shouted IN CAPS. It was immediately deleted. Yet I have no doubt that the person I shouted at was giggling while I was seriously allowing mysef to be pushed to the brink because I was in a fragile state already.

I remember that day on MN ruefully now (as you can imagine). I was so naive and green to it all that I didn't realise this was business as usual for AIBU.

I see it happen sometimes now and I am always concerned for the new poster. I am not a religious person, or a believer in anything per se, but I do think that there is something sinful about some of the goading on MN, particularly where something very innocent is deliberately misconstrued just for the fun of it and particularly where it is clear that someone has spotted a serious vulnerability and is going for the jugular. I think if there is going to be deletion, that should not be tolerated.

Oh I'm sorry to hear all that, working9while5. It sounds so distressing.

I guess part of the problem is that MNHQ don't have the staff or the levels of moderation to address problematic threads investigatively. So a simple insult like 'piss off' goes because it is 'personal attack' regardless of context, even though the context might be so much worse.

I know that once they claim to moderate the site they are more exposed, legally, to claims about defamation etc. So there is good reason to be hands off. Also of course it is nightmareishly hard to embark on a principled, active, moderation without being censorious.

I don't envy them this aspect of running a site.

I think the issue, Eleison, is the pretence that MNHQ don't know what AIBU is about. AIBU is "not a fight club"? Well, I don't know what a fight club would look like, then! AIBU is rife with personal attacks and is often not particularly civil, yet the disclaimer suggests something else to the new and uninitiated. As there are civil threads contained within it (like this one), people can find themselves lured into the lion's den so to speak .

I wish that threads could not be deleted, really. Not unless they actually break the law. I think that sometimes it's a challenge to some to push it as far as it can go without being deleted, which seems to be achieved by adopting a particular style e.g. talking around an insult "what a vile and ill-educated OP, how smug and self-satisfied it sounds, it seems to me you must have crawled out from under a rock dearie" vs "you vile ill-educated troll I hope you eat shit and die".n Both are really personal attacks by-any-other-name. Poor examples, but you know what I mean. I think that if no one could namechange or have their views deleted, AIBU would be a lot less of a fight club than it is. Some would miss that, though.

Sometimes, however, I feel that AIBU gives me a window into the hatred and bile in some people's hearts and minds I wish I didn't have iykwim. Yet I enjoy the fun threads, so I am hooked.

I suppose it is what it is. Someone will be along soon to say that we could all log off if we don't like it..

I agree that threads shoudl stand - I had a thread in Site stuff not long ago asking why they couldn't,

there wasn't much of an answer, tbh.

but if threads are going to be left, it should be across all topics.

it is discriminatory to do otherwise.

so racist/sexist/disablist threads should all stand - reasoned argument is the way to go (notwithstanding individual post deletions, obviously)

and threads which are uncomfortable reading too (recent events being a prime example of this)

either they all go, or none, but a clear and consistent policy is needed.

Working
So sorry that you were upset by that thread. I know that I always feel sorry for first time mums who are being slightly PFBish and then post on AIBU. Is it so hard to say, "I understand your concern, we all felt a bit like that, but you are being unreasonable" instead of "FFS, get a grip".

I've just read this thread and FWIW I think I'd rather have offensive/controversial/even abusive posts stand than not.
As somebody said higher up, it allows everybody to see the twattish poster in all their unreasonable, stoopid, ignorant glory .
And if reasoned debate ensues, all the better, surely?

9to5, that sounds horrendous - glad you are still 'here'.

We can all log off if we want to - there, I've said it ...

9while5, sorry, can't even shorten your name correctly

The point though is, Pacific, that the object of the abuse can get really, really upset.
I still can't stand a particular poster who was really nasty to me on one thread, even though I find myself agreeing with a lot of their other posts until I realise 'oh, it's that horrible bitch again'.

I dont offten visit sn but do on occassions if I find something of interest but only due to my line of work and not for personal info or support.

so what kind of posting is going on there?

I think the inconsistincies maybe should lead no moderation at all unless someone is breaking the law with what they say? I dont know but like others have said maybe it is worth letting posts be seen by others as it does show the poster for who they are.

are there other forums with no moderation or intervention at all?

moderating even?

Stewie - that is awful! I do sometimes wonder why certain Members seem to get away with saying certain things...

TSC - just because you think someone is wrong it doesnt mean they are it means there is differing opinions and calling someone a cunt is just lazy

I have been deleted for standing my ground against people who don't like what I say in threads I have started - now whilst I have no problem with differif opinions, abusing someone for their opinion is just so pathetic and I will call people up on it always.

I agree with the poster who said that some people just come on to goad people and to insult. I couldn't give a shit about the opini

Oops... Continued

I meant to say

I couldn't give a shit about the opinions of peoPle who just want to goad and insult but if they do it, I will give it back ten times harder!

I think (and have said on many occasions) that ibu shows mn in a really, really bad light.

And as much as there might be a disclaimer at the top of the topic there is a real attitude that ibu is a fre-for-all for people to be as hateful as they want and that if the op doesn't like it then they are the ones being unreasonable for posting there in the first place.

I think that starting the ibu topic completely changed the way mn operates and was a huge mistake, but mn hq will never get rid of it because it has the highest amount of traffic. In fact last year I heard justine on bbc news singing the praises of the ibu topic and how wonderful it is.

Agree wannabe that some people think it is a green line to be as nasty as they can be. It's a shame as there is some really good advice here too and some lovely ladies put in a lot of time and effort into their replies

I think the thing to do is just ignore the pathetic comments and insults but is easier said than done as when someone does that I want ro challenge them for the idiot that they are!

Case in point was last night when a woman started a
Thread about the four children in a house fire and yes, her comments were inappropriate but she was asking a genuine question and rather than point out to her why it was wrong to think the way she did, people were insulting her left, right and centre! There are better ways to disagree than to be a gang of nasty little vipers.