to think that some kids are just low average ability, and

[MyBrilliantCareer]

don't actually have dyslexia, or need to be withdrawn from mainstream lessons.

montysorry

My DS is definatly more of a do-er than a listener. I'm glad that pointythings has written her/his above post. Thats my DS to a tee. He is great with making things, circuits, mechano etc but his aceademic skills on paper, by that I mean what he can (choses ) to do are below the National average.

stayingafresh I'm sorry your experiencing these difficautiles and FWIW I totally agree with what your saying. I do think though with you behind him your DS will be OK. Good luck.

Ariesgirl, I think Startingafresh was being funny...50% always below average etc

That wasn't a grin at the above post but the one about DD1.

I really feel for kids who are doing ok, but not brilliantly academically, and whose parents insist that there must be something wrong with them.

Can't we find a way of nurturing everyone's talent, regardless of whether it's academic, vocational, or even just a fantastic personality who can listen and share?

Ariesgirl - I think that was StartingAfresh's little joke? Based on the definition of the word average?

I have met parents like the ones OP is talking about, though (not very many) the ones that insist that the problems their children are presenting are to do with some kind of undiagnosed disability/condition/mental illness. IME they get very aggressive when professionals (GP's, Ed psych's etc) won't confirm their views.

Whereas most parents want to work with schools, have a very shrewd idea of their children's abilities and needs and little foibles. It is very unfortunate that some of these parents have a lot of difficulty getting the support their children actually do need.

x posts, startingafresh!

Bruffin, what you describe is the very criteria they look for to diagnose a SLD. That imbalance rather than similar attainment across the board.

I doubt we'll get the right support. It's an outstanding school according to Ofsted, with 40% SEN children so they know everything. It is why we lost our tribunal for better provision.

He'll still be learning animals until he goes to secondary school. I told the teachers that he knows them all and they said that they can't take what I say until they have seen it themselves. I offered to come in and show him (I know how to get him to do it) but they have refused on the grounds that if I want to come in to show them how to do their job then all parents will want to.

Grrrrr

mumbar Thanks. He'll 'probably' be alright but this level of frustration is by no means unique to us. ASD is very poorly understood in mainstream schools and MLD schools are not appropriate for a good many of children on the spectrum because their academic skills are often reasonable.

I know I'm expressing myself poorly. Sorry

If the help was not offered generally at first , how would they ever know which ones had SLDs and which were simply not that bright?

IME schools make up their mind about children's ability (including choosing to label them despite having no concrete evidence) regardless of what parents feel is the true state of affairs. If you oppose them too much, this only serves to make them suspicious of your parenting.

Montysorry that was how the school system in the Netherlands used to work when I was in it - differentiation into vocational/academic at broadly 14, and it worked then (not sure how it is now, lots of reforms (which made my mum retire early in disgust) so probably as bad there now as it is here.

Personally if my toilets are blocked I want a good plumber, not someone who writes flawless sentences in Latin.

I had a friend at school who always worked really hard but she wasn't particularly bright. She got Ds for most of her GCSEs.

Her dad got angry with the school and demanded that they were all re-marked which took a lot of battling and extreme stress for her. He got what he wanted though and they were marked again.

They came back as Ds.

I felt so SO sorry for my friend. She was begging him not to get them marked again. Even SHE knew that she had done the best and that was the best she could get.

6 months later she moved out with a man 10 years older than her.

It turned out okay though. He had a reasonable income and supported her and their subsequent 4 kids and still is 20 years later.

Of course some children are below average in ters of ability. Just like some are average and some above average. That's how averages work after all.

But dyslexia, dyscalcula and other things like that do indeed exist and with the right intervention early on, which can be within lessons or external to lessons, it means children with those issues can learn to work around them, learn strategies and can then reach their full potential within lessons.

Dyslexia and fyscalcua have nothing to do with academic ability. There are many very academically able dyslexics around who have been shown ways to overcome their difficulties. Should they be prevented from doing so?

Similar children who are below average can be given additional support in order to raise their levels in key areas such as phonics and numeracy. By doing this and giving them a bi of extra help - again either external to class or within the class - they can pick up the bits they are struggling with, make their own progress and become more able to access the maintream lesson.

Also there are some children who are above average, possibly even G&T. And again, the should get some extra support to extend and challenge them so they too can reach their potential. Again this coud take place in class or external to class. Should we stop this too?

And what about those who are average? Do we just tailor everything to them? Or should we aim even higher and put in some support here and there to raise their game too?

Also a school will not give 1:1 support for dyslexia without a diagnosis. And a dx is not going to happen quick. Schools won't just give 1:1 becuase a parent thinks a child is dyslexic. they will do their own assessments and see what is going on, and make a proper referral for formal assessment if they feel fit.

Hmmm. My ds had lots of problems writing and most teacher thought he was lazy as he was very bright. Confidence went down. He also has lots of health issues and the consultatnt w see arranged for a series of tests (cognitive etc...). He scores were so unusual they got a Neuro doc to view them. Diagnosis = Dyslexia

He also has very high IQ (top 4% of pop) which is a bonus. His writing has improved a bit but is not as good as his sister who is 5 years younger. He is age 11.

Most important thing for us is the understanding that he is not lazy, that he needs a bit of support (scribing) and a bit of extra time in exams. I think when he can type he will never look back.

Hulababy I utterly agree - every child should be given the chance to reach their potential, whether they are G&T or whatever.

I don't think I ever said we should stop supporting a child

Drosophila - glad your DS has the diagnosis.

I am the dyslexia support in the primary where I work. And yes, children with a formal diagnosis of dyslexia do get funded 1:1 time with me ( the lucky things ).

My deputy head maintains, and I am with her 100%, that some children are below average and that's just how it is. They get as much time (if not more) and encouragement than any other child. They always have the chance to excel in other ways.

Yes, there are sometimes reasons why a child is not achieving, which need to be investigated. But sometimes a child maybe just isn't that academically able.

"Personally if my toilets are blocked I want a good plumber, not someone who writes flawless sentences in Latin."

If only it was as simple as my son being less able and that I was a pushy parent.

What a relief that would be

BTW, I also suspect that my ds is dyslexic (my dad was dx at 59 with severe dyslexia), but quite frankly I have enough trouble with the dx he DOES have!

I have Dyspraxia and Dyscalculia - wasn't dx until 21 as, despite many issues as a child which saw me before psychologists etc (when I was dx as an adult the lady said I was borderline Aspergers) no-one picked up on it. Because I was bright they dismissed it. With the benefit of hindsight I can't believe all the signs were missed.

I have a few friends with LDs, especially Dyslexia and one lad with Dyslexia and Dyspraxia and they're all educated to degree level, all RG Uni's bar one.

I think some people forget learning difficulty doesn't = learning impossibility. My DP and parents are still dismissive that my dx is a learning difficulty as I have a degree and therefore 'don't have a problem' doesn't explain why I scraped a pass in my GCSE maths by 2% (I took the intermediate paper), why I'm in my twenties, can't tell the time, can't tell left from right and can't total up the score from two die without counting each individual dot by touching them.

People with LDs vary like people without LDs - some will be average, some below average and some above. And it's not easy to get a diagnosis!

Surely dyslexia isn't the only reason to get extra support. Can you really be sure these children aren't benefiting from extra support?

DP is dyslexic and extremely bright, he just doesn't process language in the same way. He is now a Barrister and did really well because his school were able to identify the problem and found ways for him to learn effectively. That is what should be done throughout the country.

DS is borderline dyslexic, we know his level of understanding is high as his verbal communication skills are outstanding however he lacks the ability to put pen to paper.

I think a school does identify (well a good school will) whether the child is struggling to use the English language effectively, compared to a child who has little understanding of what is being taught. Both children should get support to reach their full potential, whether that be above or below average. If a child is below average they still need to learn to read and write effectively enough to cope with life, and schools should provide them with the support they need to achieve this.

Yeah yeah and there are no SN kids either - just naughty ones. Jog on. YABU.