to think that some kids are just low average ability, and

[MyBrilliantCareer]

don't actually have dyslexia, or need to be withdrawn from mainstream lessons.

mumbar - spot on.

I'm not being judgmental of the kids at all. I don't actually value a person based on their ability to pass exams. But when parents insist that their children have undiagnosed dyslexia then it suggests that the parents have expectations for their children that may be unrealistic. This can be a bit stressful for the kids.

Mumbar, statistically, yes. Yet if you delve a little deeper you will find that actually, 2C is the average for boys writing. But of course, the national average doesn't split along gender lines. So your DS is pretty much where he should be (nationally that is. It may well be that he is above/below in relation to his class)

I didn't say low ability. I said low average ability.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get any support for a child in mainstream school, nevermind withdrawal or 1:1?

StartingAfresh Wed 26-Jan-11 20:26:12:My ds is top of his class but the teachers don't know it because he has a 'label' that = 'low expectations'.

eh????

IF you are talking about the one-to-one programme, as I understand it, it is nothing to do with special needs (dyslexia) but everything to do with given "low-average-ability" kids a bit of a helping hand.

We refer to it here as Mild General Learning Difficulty and a child has to be struggling in a range of areas to be assessed as such. I disagree that MGLD kids don't need withdrawal or 1-1. Every child should be given support where necessary.

Furthermore, if a child is struggling in only one area, it is indicative of a Specific Learning Difficulty. Dyslexia is one of many SLDs. I suspect parents mention dyslexia specifically because they've heard of it. It can be difficult to articulate when you know your child is having a difficulty but you're not an expert in the area.

YABVU

He has a full-time statement which you can only get if you are assessed as having learning difficulties, and yet he has just turned 4, can read and understands fractions as well as having good mental arithematic but because his nursery are only listening to sounds rather than doing any reading and the maths is at a level where they are talking about bigger and smaller, his ability has not been recognised.

And nor will it be. His communication and listening skills are extremely poor. As far as they're concerned he hasn't even 'got' bigger and smaller, in fact it appears he doesn't even hear them. He is rarely engaged.

He was assessed at 3.6 as being academically equivelent to a 5.2 year old.

Surely children are expected to learn a certain set of skills in school. Whatever their 'general ability' (if this means anything) they all need to learn to read, write, be competent in arithmetic / mathematics at the appropriate level.

Most will be fine with the general class lessons, some - who may or may not have a SLD - will need additional help. Do you suggest that a child who struggles with reading/writing is just left illiterate?

Yes. I'm suggesting that we should let kids who aren't top of the class, but coping ok, flounder and left "illiterate"

I'm actually talking about parental overdependence on a label. I think it could put undue pressure on kids rather than let them accept that they aren't, and won't, top the class.

Maybe it's because in this country we have somehow come to value academic excellence as trumping everything else. It is no longer acceptable to be a nice lad who will learn a trade, earn a good living and be a decent member of society. Partly because the opportunities are no longer there.

montysorry It probably was a bad example as statistically your right, and he's a late Aug birthday so 2C is considered good. He is a great example though of a child who is acheiving highly in some areas, not so! in others.

DS WAS though picked up as showing signs of, and possibly being mildly dyslexic in the DEST. (yr R). I still see signs of it now but his school are not worried. FWIW I was 16 when I was diagnosed.

Startingafresh, does your DS have an ASD? I ask because I have seen children with an ASD appear to have little or no understanding when in fact their minds are a whizz of activity. Their difficulty is communicating that knowledge.

Mumbar, it is the last skill to catch up, usually. It is not at all unusual to see bright, summer born boys with a writing level of 2C or even 1A. Quite a few still get at least L4, often L5 at Y6 when their motor skills catch up with their brain.

OP are you a professional? A teacher, specialist, what is your interest in this?

I'm still waiting for DS' common sense to catch up with his brain never mind the writing

I always say to DS 'I don't mind if you can/can't do something or how good you are at it, as long as you try your hardest'. He is a lazy blighter though at times.

Montysorry,

You put your finger on it with your latest post - the skills and potential that children without 'traditiona' academic aptitudes hav are not valued anymore, which is terrible. Everyone needs a functional level of literacy - to fill out forms, deal with the online environment, manage money and communication and so on - but beyond that what we need are skills - engineers, electricians, plumbers, builders, welders, mechanics - the list is endless. We are not at the moment growing these people at home because we don't value the skills needed. It's very shortsighted. Investment in vocational education - and I don't mean dumping grounds for the non-academic but genuine, high-quality education - would equip a whole generation for a satisfying and productive working life, instead of leaving them disenchanted with the fact that they seem to have no future.

Intelligence is hereditary generally. Like other traits.

Children who are naughty are that way because of the way they have been brought up.

Yes, severe asd or aspergers depending on the wind at the time of observation/assessment.

I'm not bothered about his academic skills going unrecognised, but I AM bothered about the low expectations in general. Because he can't communicate well, when people attempt it they treat him as if he is 4 months, not 4 years and spend a whole term taking him out for 1:1 and teaching him the names of animals which he learnt reluctantly a year ago and is too disinterested to be bothered to show them.

I have a September born, 5yr old DD1 like that. Not sure what her excuse is!

"It certainly is outrageous that at least half of our children are leaving school with below average reading and writing skills........."

StartingAfresh, do you mean primary children or secondary children? If you means primary kids, then what you're saying is that the percentage of children leaving KS2 without attaining Level 4 is below fifty. Which is wrong.

In my opinion as a teacher who left in frustration at this country's special needs policies, the main reason that the level of reading, writing and speaking isn't as high as we want is because of children's lives at home, not teaching standards. Teaching is better than it has ever been, but sadly it is often impossible.

Pointythings, I feel quite strongly that we should be offering this 'fork' in education at 14. Before those who are good kids but simply not interested in a purely academic education switch off and become disaffected.

My DS got extra 1 to 1 help for SLD (dylexic type problems) precisly because he is high ability and needed extra help to reach his potential. I was told if the rest of him had been average ability he would not have got the extra help.

Ariesgirl I hope you're not a maths teacher. My post was a joke. LOL

You'd kind of expect half(ish) the population to finish school with below average attainment. Where do you think that average comes from?

startingafresh, I'm sorry to hear that. It must be hugely frustrating for both you and your DS. I taught in an ASD unit at one point and the approach you are describing was not at all how the fantastic staff reached the children they were teaching.
I hope you can access the right support for him soon.