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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

... to think not having sex before marriage is NOT the only measure of morality?

50 replies

woollyideas · 26/01/2011 11:25

Re Big Fat Gypsy Wedding... keep reading that gypsies have 'high moral standards' because the girls don't have sex before marriage. AIBU to think that we should have more than a single measure of morality/immorality? I had sex before marriage but have never considered myself 'immoral'.

This is not a dig at gypsies (my grandfather was one!) but when I read bollix like 'Oh they're very moral because they don't have sex before marriage' I feel rather Shock that we judge people morals on a single issue like this.

Has the world gone a bit Mary Whitehouse?

OP posts:
Original poster
woollyideas · 26/01/2011 11:26

Please excuse lack of apostrophe - should be 'people's morals'

How very slack of me...

OP posts:
TmiEdward · 26/01/2011 11:30

It's not their only moral though, is it? It is just the one that is easily related to by the non-gypsy community and so is focussed on.

The 6yo's dancing was not exactly "moral" though!!

MrSpoc · 26/01/2011 11:30

ok they dont have sex before marriage but they get married at 16.

Butterbur · 26/01/2011 11:35

They're not free to choose though, are they. There's no morality unless you have freedom of choice to choose/reject the alternative.

I respect Ann Widdecombe's choice to remain a virgin for her whole life because she was unmarried much more. I think that's true morality, even if I don't agree with it.

ilovemyhens · 26/01/2011 11:37

When my dh worked at the office, some gypsies camped outside - there were several of them and they were very abusive towards the people in the offices and dh would arrive at work to find them doing their toilet activities outside their caravans in full view of everyone with skirts hitched around their waists Hmm

dh has also had dealings with them when he was in Sussex and they were involved in a lot of theft. They don't pay income tax and so can afford large, expensive caravans.

They also tried to trash the field near to where we live and caused a lot of vandalism. They seem to think the world owes them a living without actually contributing very much at all themselves.

AbsDuCroissant · 26/01/2011 11:40

Agree with Butterbur - it's much more admirable if someone has alternative options, and chooses to do x rather than y (e.g. people living under dictatorships who don't follow the majority in some abhorrent behaviour).

As a general point (I haven't watched the Gipsy wedding stuff, so can't comment), YANBU - morality doesn't boil down to just one issue. There are many ways in which someone can act in a moral way. I mean, I could say I'm super moral as I've never murdered anyone (totally ignoring the fact that I've never been in a situation where I've had to choose not to murder anyone).

clevercloggs · 26/01/2011 11:49

surely having high morals includes living a life style that doesnt harm anyone else, living by the law of the land, having social responsibilities, being a good citizen, doing as you would be done by.

Grin
KnittedBreast · 26/01/2011 11:50

dressing like whore isnt having morals, especially when you are 8.

its like that page 3 girl who claims she all inncoent because shes a virgin...

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 26/01/2011 11:55

There is no morality without choice.

bubblewrapped · 26/01/2011 11:56

They arent all married off at 16, and they arent all virgins before they marry either..

That is just a myth that they like to think covers up the tarty outfits..

BreconBeBuggered · 26/01/2011 12:04

I don't think morals are anything to do with how you dress or who you sleep with before you're married. Morals are about our behaviour in relation to individuals and society, ie, more about not fucking people over than not fucking people.

figcake · 26/01/2011 12:05

I got the impression that the one in the hazardous dress was not a virgin actually - they talked about "not living together" whereas the others would talk about not having sex in a much more prouder, surer way.

Vallhala · 26/01/2011 12:08

YANBU.

My morals have no problem with sex before marriage because as long as it's between consenting adults it has no effect on any other creature.

I prefer to take Gandhi's lead - "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

Large numbers of certain sections of society fail this one spectacularly ime.

TheCrackFox · 26/01/2011 12:14

I think it is very sad getting married off at 16 to the only boy you have ever kissed.

We wouldn't want it for our own daughters.

swanandduck · 26/01/2011 12:21

It's a moral decision they've made because they believe sex before marriage is immoral, but I agree that it needs to be accompanied by respect for other people and their property.

StuffingGoldBrass · 26/01/2011 12:36

It's not moral in the least because it is indivisible from the way women and girls are treated as property in that culture. There is nothing immoral about consensual sex between adults, and most people are better off for having several sexual partners before choosing to marry if they ever marry at all.
A culture which puts a big premium on female virginity is an immoral culture, end of, because such a culture doesn;t regard women as human beings.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 26/01/2011 12:42

swanandduck - That might be a moral decision by the community, but it's not one made by the individuals. They are forced into it by the community.

TmiEdward · 26/01/2011 12:50

SGB, that's true. The focus is on female virginity. The gypsy boys are not adverse to "playing the field" with non-gypsy girls.

Ths girl with the dangerous dress last night was non-gypsy.

Mists · 26/01/2011 12:51

I don't think that any misogynistic society can be considered to be highly moralistic.

BuzzLightBeer · 26/01/2011 12:57

Is this yet another slag the shite out of cultural differences we don't understand? Hmm

Seriously you've seen one C4 programme and you know it all, huh?

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 26/01/2011 12:58

No it's saying you can't describe someone as moral when they haven't made a moral choice about something.

frgr · 26/01/2011 13:02

"A culture which puts a big premium on female virginity is an immoral culture, end of, because such a culture doesn;t regard women as human beings."

Bravo, exactly.

BuzzLightBeer · 26/01/2011 13:05

but its a ridiculous question in the op

"someone on a programme said they are very moral cos they don't have sex before marriage, AIBU to think we shouldn't have only one measure of morality?"

Er yes, because that was one comment from one person, how on earth can that translate to the rest of us having a single measure of morality? Do we all go around saying I dom't mind murder as long as the women are virgins at marriage?

And none of you know fuck all about it anyway.

ILoveItWhenYouCallMeBoo · 26/01/2011 13:05

agree with val, SGB and mists.

MsBethel · 26/01/2011 13:08

You intend to spend the rest of your life with a person, and you're going to do enter into this commitment with no idea whether you will have a mutually fulfilling love life? No one should be made to take that sort of gamble with their life.

People who push "no sex before marriage" are immoral.

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