To think that when people describe their children as wilful...

[Pushmeinthepool]

....it actually means their children aren't disciplined properly and are naughty?

My friend has 3 children, all very badly behaved, with no manners. She says they're "wilful". It really annoys me. She never pulls them up on their behaviour and just lets them get away with being rude to others.

For example, her 10 year old recently asked me, in front of her, if I was happy being short (I'm 5ft 4) because research had proven that short people earn less than tall people. Her 7 year old demanded the receipt for a birthday gift I gave him, because he didnt' like it. She just laughs when they behave like this and says "Awwww, she's so wilful/such a character"

Grrrrrrrrr

YABU

i was willful and my dses are wilful in verying degrees. i was and they are extremely well behaved children. i am always complimented on them by people when we are out. wilful means that they are determined to do what they want and get what they want. it doesn't mean tehy are let to do or get what tehy want.

was teh 10 year old able to provide a link to that research BTW? if so then i am afraid they had a point in asking

I do think a lot of parents use the term 'wilfull' instead of naughty (though they are too different things)

Another one is 'free spirit' when refferring to children who wont come when called and ignore anything their parents say

Haha, no, no link provided I'm afraid.

It means disobedient or naughty, and in the Ops example, downright rude and cheeky.. but fluffy parents like to use the term "wilful" as if to say it is something beyond their control to deal with.

'two'..not 'too' obviously

Friggin wilfull keyboard

willful does not mean disobedient and naughty. the mum in teh OP does not know what wilful means. she is using it in the wrong way.

Mutz, you have hit the nail on the head about wilful and naughty being very different things.

when i say mum in the OP i mean teh mum of the naughty children, not the OP.

IMO there are some children who are naturally "wilful" but get pulled up by their parents and therefore not allowed free rein and are reasonably well behaved. That's fine.

On the other hand there are some children who are naturally "wilful" but do not get disciplined and are allowed to run wild. That's not so good.

So I think it depends on whether the parents are just describing their child (but taking steps to sort out their behaviour) or using it as an excuse.

Wilfull means to be obstinate, and forceful, and determined to have your own way.

A child behaving like that is naughty in my opinion, if they are ignoring their parents instructions.

agree norman.

"if they are ignoring their parents instructions."

exactly 'IF'. children can be willful but completely accept the boundaries their parents set. it is when they dont that they are naughty, but being wilfull isn't an automatic route to naughtiness.

The friend I described has also said before that her 4 year old won't take no for an answer and she literally has to play with her all day.

With my children, if the answer is "no" to something, then it's "no" and I don't hesitate to let them know that. I think you need to bring children up to learn that they will not always be told "yes" when they want to do something.

True Norman You can be wilfull and polite/well behaved/respectful.

I do think the OP means that people use it out of context to 'excuse' bad behaviour.

Yabu.

Children can be wilful (IMO this means push boundaries, determined etc) but still have parents that reign in the less pleasant aspects of this aspect of their personalities. Of my two neices one is quite docile, the other is wilful; both are brought up well and behave nicely.

My DS is wilful and so I work harder at teaching him to be well behaved than I would if he was less wilful.

Maybe some people use wilfulness as an excuse for parenting. Your friend sounds like she does, and indeed it sounds like her children are rude and disrespectful rather than wilful.

when i say mum in the OP i mean teh mum of the naughty children, not the OP.

Actually, I think what you mean is "the mother of the "wilful" children to whom the OP refers".

But yes, it could well be that their alleged "wilfulness" is actually a euphemism for "rude little sods".

should there be a on the end of that or are you actually correcting my grammer?

"No one is going to give them shit, they will stand up for themselves and what they believe in."

you know what i do when i hear this line being trotted out?

I use 'wilful' to mean that you have a strong will. Which, IME, all children do. Until, for some of them, sadly, it's literally or metaphorically beaten out of them.

How a parent responds to normal levels of wilfulness can sometimes lead to misbehaviour (aka obstinacy), but this is not a given.

So, yes, YABU.

'They are fiesty and well-mannered.'

Ah that's the difference though Titus. Well mannered.

No-one gives my DD shite and stands up for herself but she wouldn't dare demand a receipt for a gift she didn't like. That's just downright rude.

the kid who wanted the receipt is obviously just an obnoxious spoilt brat

I'm afraid that I find smileys and the like something of an abomination so don't actually at people. I wasn't being difficult about your grammar though, just trying to clarify what I think you meant to say.

well i meant to say what i wrote TBH