To think that when people describe their children as wilful...

[Pushmeinthepool]

....it actually means their children aren't disciplined properly and are naughty?

My friend has 3 children, all very badly behaved, with no manners. She says they're "wilful". It really annoys me. She never pulls them up on their behaviour and just lets them get away with being rude to others.

For example, her 10 year old recently asked me, in front of her, if I was happy being short (I'm 5ft 4) because research had proven that short people earn less than tall people. Her 7 year old demanded the receipt for a birthday gift I gave him, because he didnt' like it. She just laughs when they behave like this and says "Awwww, she's so wilful/such a character"

Grrrrrrrrr

Wilfulness is a personality trait like anything else. There are definitely more wilful children and more passive children.

When my littlest sister was 3 my mum took her to the doctors because she was so stubborn and headstrong and determined and tantrumy and...well....wilful. She though she may have some thing wrong with her as me and my other sister weren't like this. The doctor just laughed and said my mum had been lucky up till now, and it was just my sisters personality. Obviously my sister learnt how to behave as she got older and the tantrums stopped, but she still has an iron will. And you have no hope in hell of winning an argument with her

Your friends children sound like they could do with more discipline though, as others have said it's not an excuse for bad beheviour in someone older than 3 or 4.

titus i when i hear that line because it is usually (maybe not in your case) trotted out by parents following an episode of rude behaviour on their child's part, it is often accompanied by the parent laughing at their child's rude behaviour because they think it is an endearing quality.

but as i said. maybe not in your case.

if i'd talked to an adult like that when i was a child, and been ungrateful i'd have been knocked into the middle of next week. ie the hiding of my life. I can't understand how so many kids get away with rude behaviour 'oh little Titus is just wilful and expressing himself'...my arse!
I work in retail in a very 'plummy' area and recently heard small child screaming at her mother 'don't patronise me! don't patronise me!' she was all of five years old.

madame, would you have been prepared to provide a link to such a study though?

is that to me titus?

i will assume it is.

i am not confusing willfulness with rudeness.it is the parents who trot this line out that are confusing it. i am only telling you what usually precedes that line and it isn't willfulness.

I often describe my dd as wilful - because she is! She isn't a nightmare child that runs riot, and I always pull her up on her behaviour, and she knows how to behave when out.She is disciplined, has distinct boundaries and generally behaves well.....
I honestly think that some parents have kids that are easier in nature, and not as stubborn as some.
A good friend of mine had a dd who was very calm, and when you compared my dd to her, it was apparent that my child was more inquisitive, questioning and at times, demanding. When my friend had her ds, she suddenly understood what I had to contend with, and she hadn't changed her parenting style, it was just the character of that child was different.
I get pissed off with people who judge me for my parenting just because my dd can be wilful - I'm not a muppet, I do understand how to control her (and I have been teaching for 12 years, so understand how to manage kids).

YABU. DS is very wilful at the moment (he has just turned 3) and yes DH and I deal with it firmly. It's bloody hard work.

and I would never tolerate rudeness or her being obnoxious.

Most of dd wilful behaviour is mainly saved for me and dh!!!!

I think wilful means stubborn.

Which kids are.

Wilful in itself says nothing about how the child is raised.

Wilful and I give in
wilful and I exert my authority
wilful and I compromise

etc etc

I am oddly reminded of 'breaking in' horses. For some reason.

Its a tough one..... I describe my 20m old as willful, she is also completely bonkers but also a very well behaved child. She is very sure of what she wants, and very stubborn, but if she misbehaves or is dissobedient then she is disciplined.

Willful can be managed - it doesnt equate naughty, but it can do if a willful child is allowed to get away with behaviour that is innapropriate.

I do see where you are coming from though, there are some very PC terms that are used now to describe behaviours that (according to my Dad) described very differently in the past! My Dad will often say to me "when I was young we didn't have the phrase 'challenging behaviour', we would just say they were a little bugger!"

Yabu,some children are very wilful,including mine. I don't use it as a replacement for naughty, they are naughty too they don't get away with it though.

Some children are more biddable/obedient, I don't think it's all to do with parenting, personality has to come into it somewhere.

YANBU.They sound like rude, obnoxious brats. Some parents just like to find a term that makes their children sound like they've got interesting personalities instead of admitting they're spoilt and need a bit of discipline. Like parents who call their child 'free spirited' when he's teraing the room apart.

I think labels on children are just unhelpful in general - whether that be naughty, spoilt, wilful...

I mean children are multi-faceted human beings. And they may say or do something which is socially inappropriate at times, and as such would be considered rude in an adult, but may just be a result of curiousity, impulsiveness or immaturity in a child. Does not make the child "naughty" or "wilful" imo.

It's not lack of parenting from my experience, more the nature or personality of the child. I have a very easy going, laid back DD who likes to please and a 'wilful' stubborn, fiesty DD who is less concerned about how others feel. She is undoubtedly the harder child to parent, obviously, but I do think when she's an adult she will be less influenced by others and less easily led. So I prob worry about the 'pleaser' more!

DC are willfull but I don't make excuses for that.
Their willfulness drives me batty, I need to vent about that, but I don't expect anyone to make allowances for it. I hope it means they are independent-minded in the end, they are encouraged to have their own opinions and to express those opinions, but they have to compromise on what they want, all the time.
Sounds like your friend, OP, is using it as an excuse.