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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In thinking - this isn't just normal 'tween' horribleness is it?

60 replies

Cleofartra · 24/01/2011 13:12

DD (11) is driving me insane.

Current annoyances:

Stays awake half the night then refuses to get up in the morning. If I try to turn her light off she screams that she's scared and is generally so impossible we have to turn it back on or she'll wake the entire neighborhood up. Every morning it's a huge battle to get her out of bed. Every night it's a huge battle to get her into bed. She has woken DH and I up 5 nights out of 7 in the past 6 months - complaining she doesn't feel well, or can't sleep or thinks there's been a break in.

She never, ever, ever does anything she's asked to do. Hair washing, homework, having a bath, tidying her room, getting her uniform/bag ready for school, picking her stuff off the floor. Won't do it until you've asked her 10 times and got angry. Not even then most of the time.

Has graffiti'd her newly painted bedroom wall with moronic slogans: "Yo, Gabz!", "Hate the haters, love your friends!", "My life, my rules!".

Refuses to do any exercise at all.

Hides junk food in her room and eats at all times of the day and night.

Is rude to me generally but especially in front of her friends.

Won't take responsibility for anything she does wrong - losing her uniform, upsetting friends, getting detentions etc. It's always someone else's fault.

Is very attention seeking - has lots of annoying strategies, her latest being to ask forcibly, volubly and at length for us to buy her things that she knows we are going to say 'no' to - a hamster/new phone/high heels/make-up, and to keep asking and going on until one of us loses the plot with her. She's also always going on about her aches and pains - always ill, always feeling sick, always got a head-ache (unless there's a chance of a shopping trip/burger/bar of chocolate on offer in which case she makes an instantaneous recovery).

She's an absolute pain in the arse about homework - doesn't write it down at school, or writes it on random pieces of paper which she then loses. If she absolutely has to do it she'll get it done in about 10 seconds, and it's usually done very badly.

For some reason her teachers mostly think she's great (she's very lively and engaged at school, though she complains about school constantly at home and says she hates it) and has just been put on the gifted and talented register.

She's lovely to everyone else's siblings but utterly vile to her own two younger brothers, especially my 5 year old ds who has autism. She deliberately winds him up, and shouts at him. Calls him a 'freak' and a 'spaz'.

She's driving me and ds NUTS. We're trying to be calm and firm with her, and to sing from the same song-sheet so she can't play us off against each other, though she tries. DH told me the other day that he finds her really unlikeable and I understand why. She spends about 90% of her time at home being obstructive, rude and lazy. She gets loads of attention and affection and is not missing out on anything. She's also got lots of friends.

In the past year she's experimented with every type of dysfunctional behaviour. She self-harmed for a few weeks, scratching her arms and sucking big welts on them. She showed it to me and to the school nurse straight away and we talked about it. She got bored of that after a while. Then she started playing up about food. She'd refuse to eat anything I made her and storm out the house in the morning without breakfast. She'd go hours and hours without eating and then sneak into the kitchen and eat biscuits while I wasn't looking, so I'd think she hadn't had anything that day. Then she started eating everything in sight saying 'I just can't help myself, I can't stop eating'. That lasted a month or so and she put on a bit of weight. She's not doing that so much at the moment so I assume she's brewing up something else to worry us with.

A few weeks ago she disappeared after school after telling some friends she was going to run away for 3 hours just to worry me and her dad. It was a freezing dark night and I was beside myself with anxiety when she didn't come back. The school and the police liaison from the school got involved helping us to track her down, and she did eventually appear come home of her own accord. She wasn't at all contrite even though she knew I'd been in tears and that the whole family, including my newly widowed mum, had been terrified that something had happened to her.

She's been referred to CAHMS and is waiting or an appointment, but in the meantime I'm at the end of my tether with her.

If things are going her way (ie she's getting what she wants) she's generally very high-spirited, confident and cheerful), but if anyone thwarts her or says 'no' to her she just becomes impossible.

Sad

Would you judge the behaviour I've described above as normal for a child who won't be 12 until August? Doesn't seem that way to me. I'm tearing my hair out over it.

OP posts:
AllSheepareWhite · 24/01/2011 14:40

No it is not normal for the average 11 year old who is happy. Something is up and it could be something you are missing or not aware of. Could she be being bullied either in or out of school? I know when I was being bullied that I used to come home and be very angry with my parents and brother, not only because they were the only people who would listen to me, but also in some way I felt that my parents should have done more (even if they didn't know, the adolescent mind is not that rational).

Cleofartra · 24/01/2011 14:41

"Is she as you describe constantly, or does she have lovely patches in between?"

She can be very lovely. When she's not being asked to do anything she doesn't want to do.

"Was she the same as a child, or is it a very new thing? If so, I wonder whether it's hormones - has she started her periods?"

She's AWASH with hormones I think. She's got breasts and a lot of pubic hair. But she's only 11! Wonder if it will help when she starts her periods. Right now she's neither one thing nor the other.

OP posts:
peanutbutterkid · 24/01/2011 14:43

From start to finish it all sounds like Massive Attention Seeking.

What thing(s) might she be quite unhappy about in her life, and not able to talk about?

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 24/01/2011 14:44

The teachers probably like her because she's bright and interesting. When she's naughty in class I bet she does it with aplomb - which is far more likeable than mindless disruption. At the other end of the scale, a lot of teachers I know get at least as exasperated with the ones who are too quietly obedient as they do with the ones who can be a little feisty.

It must be very hard to cope with someone who behaves in such a hateful manner though; how do you demonstrate just how dreadful they're being without making them feel like Public Enemy Number 1 (which really wouldn't help matters at all)?

atah · 24/01/2011 14:45

I think this is worse than normal teenage hormonal behaviour but would get an expert opinion on that.
It can't be easy for any of your family

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 24/01/2011 14:47

I spraypainted some crap on my wall to.

To my eternal shame and much to the amusement of my friends (I still haven't lived it down, a quarter of a century on) I misspelt two slogans, which taught me something of a lesson Grin

Luvvies · 24/01/2011 14:48

Have you thought about speaking to YoungMinds while you are waiting for the CAMHS appointment?

www.youngminds.org.uk/

They may be able to offer you and your DD some support in the meantime.

AllSheepareWhite · 24/01/2011 14:49

PS just read your post and as a bright child from a middle class background she is more likely to have been a vicim of bullying in a school with a rough intake. She could be deliberately slacking on work and misbehaving to fit in, it is something I did for a while before I realised that the bullies were still picking on me anyway.

bubblewrapped · 24/01/2011 14:53

one of the few middle-class kids in a school with a very rough intake

If this behaviour has started or escalated since she started at the school then you really do need to look into the people she is mixing with, (is she on facebook?), she may be trying to impress her new mates, and she may well be getting totally sucked in and on her way to getting in a whole lot more trouble.

I speak from experience and really wished I hadnt chosen the friends I did when I started high school, because I can see myself in the way you describe your daughter.

jellybeans · 24/01/2011 14:53

Yes it can be normal somewhat. We went through a phase with DD, 14, when she started high school. She was always very determined from a baby. Thank goodness she has calmed down abit now. But before that it was simelar to the way you described, everyone said how well behaved she was etc etc but at home it was tantrums etc and lashing out to her sibs. Lazy, selfish etc. that is totally usual for teenagers although i refuse to accept it if it goes too far. I don't agree with people who say you are the problem. I heard that they act out with people who they feel safest with. So all the tensions etc from school, hormones etc she takes out on you as she knows you will still be there. I totally sympathise but I am sure things will get better in a couple/few years. I spoke to alot of DD's friends mums and the number of them who had full blown tantrums was very high and these are 'nice' girls. good luck.

MillyR · 24/01/2011 14:56

OP, can you move your DD to a school with higher academic standards, where she has peers who are achieving more than her because they are as capable as her and doing the homework? It sounds like her being able to get away with so much at school is making her believe she can get away with a lot at home as well. Does she feel under pressure to not do the homework because she doesn't want to stand out at school as the clever one?

If not, are there extra-curricular clubs you could send her to where she might mix with kids who have higher aspirations?

Cleofartra · 24/01/2011 14:57

"as a bright child from a middle class background she is more likely to have been a vicim of bullying in a school with a rough intake"

I think there are major issues with identity for her - how she fits in with her peers.

OP posts:
mrsruffallo · 24/01/2011 15:01

I don't think it's neccesarily school- nice kids will find other nice kids to hang out with.
I would suggest family counselling- she seems to have a lot of anger towards you and her dad-maybe an attention thing?

talkingnonsense · 24/01/2011 15:10

Is she struggling with the attention that her brother obviously needs? I can remember really resenting the extra "attention" my brother had for his dyslexia, am ashamed now when I remember how much I minded but sibling relationships are complicated and it is hard being the oldest. To be fair, my 11 yr old ds is also throwing the odd mega tantrum at the moment, so hormones/ settling into secondary school is a hard time too.

ScaredOfCows · 24/01/2011 15:17

Has she only recently started being difficult, or were these behaviour traits evident in one way or another when she was younger?

TheNorthWitch · 24/01/2011 15:39

'She has breasts and pubic hair' - is your DD a lot more physically mature than her peers? Has she went from being a normal member of her group to being a bit of a freak(she thinks) and attracting negative comments/bullying? Is she worse on gym/sports days? Maybe your DD is struggling with these changes (+ hormones) and angry at a perceived lack of attention from you while her brother seems to get it all.

Ididthisforus · 24/01/2011 15:46

You say that your mum was recently widowed when your DD went walkabout for 3 hours. Was your DD 'acting up' (for want of a better phrase) before you lost your dad (condolances, I lost my father the middle of last year)? How close was your DD to her grandfather? The only reason I ask is that I was about her age when I lost 3 of my grandparents and I went off the rails for a bit, might be contributing to it?

MrsDanverclone · 24/01/2011 15:51

You poor thing.

My daughter went through similar behaviour when she was 11 and has finally been diagnosed with Aspergers. At Primary school she was able to cope with her feeling of being different, but once at comprehensive school the differences became more obvious to herself and others and she ended up being bullied.
Jelly beans is right when she says that they can kick off and be horrible to you, because deep down, they know you love them and therefore they feel safe.

My daughter suffered night terrors and difficulty sleeping, it can be caused by depression. She used a night light for as long as she needed and I encouraged her to have a relaxed bedtime routine, such as bath, book, hot water bottles, lavender drops on pillow etc. She eventually was prescribed anti depressants ( not a decision taken lightly I may add ) and is now sleeping much better.

We've been through the self harming, anorexia and running away. Nothing like the police dogs searching for your daughter's body to make you feel like a crap parent.

The fact your daughter is having night terrors, self harming behaviour issues, lacking personal grooming, difficulties organising homework and processions, critical of others, not sorry that she had you all worried when she ran away, plus she is a very bright girl, would have me wondering about mental health issues. I would try and see if you could get her appointment brought forward, as unfortunately its a long process and takes time before your daughter will feel the benefits of any help.
So don't think you are a bad parent, but make sure you find some support for yourself as its hard work.

Cleofartra · 24/01/2011 16:01

Thanks all.

MrsDanverclone - thanks for your perspective. I'm going to see my gp to talk about dd's sleep issues, which really do worry me. She's a very good doctor and it will be interesting to hear her opinion.

Ididthisforus - my dad died last year but dd was acting up before this. The sleep problem started after my dad's death though. I wouldn't be suprised if there was some connection. They weren't especially emotionally close but she did love him and saw a lot of my parents. She was very sad for my mum too, who she adores (and who adores her - she was named after my mum).

OP posts:
ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 24/01/2011 16:11

That's why I asked if she'd been assessed, for aspergers or somesuch

She sounds similar to dd, the silly behaviour because that's what she thinks girls her age should be doing, which obviously backfires, she's nothing like your dd tho as her autism is too severe, she doesn't have the freedom...

Her latest one is lying in bed all day, over weekends etc, because that's what teenagers 'do'

My way of handling that little show is to ignore and loudly talk about whatever it is we're doing that day, she soon comes flying down the stairs Wink The only real rule is she has one chance to make her decision, I will not become involved in mind games, slowly but surely she's becoming a lot more pleasant to be around

shirazgirl · 24/01/2011 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BettyCash · 24/01/2011 16:48

Yeah I second shirazgirl - she sounds bored.

But also effing annoying. YANBU!

Lulabel27 · 24/01/2011 17:12

Do you know any of her friends at school? Do they behave similarly - can you talk to their parents to compare notes so to speak?

My DSD (just turned 12) has similar outburts of moodiness, difficulty, obnoxiousness and general annoyingness but does also have some lovely traits. When her friend came over at the weekend I realised she was actually a heck of a lot better than her friend (she didn't even take her headphones off to mutter hello to us) and this is potentially where she's getting her behaviour traits from. Either that or this is how a lot of 11/12 yr olds are. I know for certain that its very different for that age group now than it was when we were that age.

There's a lot more pressure to look good, have "boyfriends", be cool etc. Can you spend some 1-1 time with her, make her feel special / loved, talk to her about it hurts you to see her act the way she does in an adult way? Sorry if you think i'm trivalising your problems but it's worked for us.

MillyR · 24/01/2011 17:27

I don't think this is all about attention seeking. Her eating sounds really chaotic. It isn't just that she is not eating meals, but that she is also bingeing on junk food in her room. I really think the OP should find a specialist eating disorder helpline.

Both eating disorders and self harm are frequently written off as attention seeking, which leads to them being dealt with inappropriately.

corygal · 24/01/2011 17:28

Could she be fed up with the amount of time you spend with the other children?

Younger DCs with SEN are going to be pretty time-consuming. And if she's freaking out with a new school, hormones, and all the rest, that could be making it worse.

Having said that, whatever her reasons for acting up, the bad behaviour needs to stop - partic the night waking and being rude to her DB.

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