to be unsure about coffee shop etiquette?

[Kalypso]

If two people enter a coffee shop, is it ever acceptable for the first person to sit at a free table while their friend orders, even if there are already people queuing who don't necessarily have a friend there to save them a table?

Depending on the size of the queue, I think it may be acceptable to claim a table beforehand when there are clearly enough tables for everybody, but what if table space happens to be very limited? Am I being unreasonable to think this is queue-jumping?

funnily enough DH and I got into a disagreement with another couple over this a while ago. The other couple both stood in the queue, whereas DH queued for us and I went to get a table. Because the other couple were in front of DH in the queue they decided that it should have been their table. Not my fault it didn't occur to them to do what we had done

If you are ordering food then surely you need to claim a table in advance? Often they ask where you are going to be sitting. Equally, I wouldn't pay to have my coffee 'in' if I had to drink it standing up.

'One man took up a table with two sofas in the Selfridge's Starbucks in Brum the other week. He bought one espresso and took up the whole god damn table with his lappy/newspapers/articles of importance'

This is no problem at all, you simply go over, say 'excuse me, could you move your things' and sit down. He can't refuse. (If you sit down with 2 DCs I can guarantee he will leave pretty quickly!)
If it is very crowded I go elsewhere but if I stay there is no way that I would buy coffee without a seat. If there were 6 of you wanting a coffee each it is madness to queue up together!
I think we will have to agree to differ. People may think it rude but those of us who don't will carry on doing it.

Perhaps it did occur to them fatpants but they were far too polite to so so?

I think it is rotten to bagsy a table while the other gets the drinks, if it is busy and there are lots of others in front of you who haven't reserved tables in this way.

If it is quiet and there is clearly enough room for all, then fair enough.

It drives me mad when we all queue together to see people coming in behind us, splitting up into two parties, and taking up all the tables such that there will be none for us and our baby.

I am often tempted to run out of the queue and bagsy one myself but then as DH says, our decisions about our conduct shouldn't depend on what others choose to do.

MsSparkle - I was indeed thinking primarily of chain coffee shops. I never find the table-nabbing situation as difficult in my local independant coffee shop (which I prefer). There, you simply go to the counter, order, pay and then sit down. They bring your drink/food to you afterwards. That way, you don't usually end up with a cup of coffee in your hand and nowhere to sit. In this place, there is also ample room to park your buggy.

The procedure seems to be different in the big chain coffee shops - most people just come in and grab the nearest table, then sends one or two of their party up to order and pay.

Interesting about the M&S 'please don't reserve your table before buying' signs - I haven't seen those, although I haven't been in an M&S coffee shop for a while. I wonder if people pay attention to them?

Good bumpsadaisie-that has to work the other way too!
It always seems to work OK, if I am on my own I always get one.
I hope that when your baby is on his/her feet you will actually get them out of the way and sit them down first, the people in the queue with hot drinks would much prefer it. If you are in the queue with a baby and toddler you are definitely in the way and would be much better in a seat.

They have been up in M&S coffee shops for ages and people ignore them.

Sod it, hog the table - what else are you going to do?

I do it all the time cos I'm tired and carrying DS and usually needing to start feeding him. BUT if you are on your own, order your coffee and then find that all the tables are gone, find one to share. If the table-nabbers bother you, share with them, secure in the knowledge that their q-jumping did them no good. Someone would have to be very rude indeed to say you can't share their table.

I am often very amused at what goes on in peoples minds... MN is fascinating some days

Anyone that hasn't been to an M&S cafe lately - keep it that way, you aren't missing anything at all. Very average coffee and at our local one they give you a 'beeper' that goes off when your food is ready, which is around the corner the other side of the cafe so you have to take, at the very least, you handbag with you and risk leaving all of your other shopping sat there while you go and collect it - all to save them actually having to have one person bringing food out... it's rubbish and of course people ignore the signs in there! I was the ONLY one without grey hair last week! Most of their clients are elderly and many of the struggle to walk/stand etc why should they have to stand in a queue with their DH/DW/DD/DS/friend or whatever while they wait for M&S's incredibly slow 'service'!?

Madness.

"bupcakesandcunting - you watching him for a full hour. That's a little scary."

I wasn't "watching" him. His table was facing mine. I knew he was there for an hour at least because so were we. I know he didn't buy another drink because he never left the table. Don't need the observational skills of an MI5 spy to notice that.

People using the martyr argument are barking up the wrong tree. Dave over the road from my nan cheats the benefits system whilst martyrs like me work. FFS. I'm being a RIGHT MARTYR. I'm going to do a Dave, fuck this for a game of soldiers. It's not being a martyr, it's having some manners and respect for others.

ChippingInSmellyCheeseFreak - TOTALLY impractical. fine if the food area is within sight of the tables but what if it's not?

It's bloody rude to send an advance party to nip off and bag the available tables (and comfiest chairs!) ahead of people in the queue. There are exceptions - if you are pregnant, need the high chairs or have little children who are safest out of the queue, are elderly or not very mobile - but most of these pig-ignorant table grabbers do not fall into those categories. Instead they are people whose only disadvantage is that they came into the coffee shop after me!

Fine to take a table while someone else gets your coffee/food if:

1. Plenty of free tables
2. You have difficulty standing for long periods for any reason (which could include having v small children)

Otherwise it's a bit rude to sit at an empty table for 20 minutes while your friend queues (yes, that's you polyester slacks lady in M&S) and I will come and sit beside you if there's nowhere else, and ds will be a pain in the arse and I will ignore your huffing and puffing, and in the end you will move. That ok with you?

It is queue jumping whether the people who disagree like it or not.

If you get to consume your drinks BEFORE someone who queued before you on dint of sending your mate to bag a table, then there has been some jumping somewhere. Right? Yes. Thank you. Now pack it in.

I worked in a department store cafe while at university - it used to get incredibly busy on Saturday afternoons. Lots of people would hold tables but if we spotted other people looking for seats while holding trays we'd ask them politely to move, or move bags/papers etc, that was the rule. Most people moved, not always happy but they'd move, the odd one would go off on one and 'never come here again blah blah'. We really enjoyed making those ones move hahaha.

This cafe always had 'tray help' - two of us behind the cash registers that were there to carry trays for people that needed help, that made a huge difference. Sadly that place is gone now, Debenhams took it over and got rid of all those helpful little details.

The last two posts are why I am certain the woman who reckons she got a grovelling letter from Thorntons was telling a big barry bullshit of a tale. If you tell staff that you have paid yet are unable to sit because of queue-jumping morons, the staff will ask morons to shift.

That is because that is the unwritten rule.

If the tray help has gone it makes sense that one person sits down and has all the bags so that you are not trying to balance bags and tray with one hand.
People may think they are being helpful when they all queue but my pet hate is being next to a DC who only comes up to my elbow and doesn't understand that I am already having problems with a tray, bags and hot drinks, I am really worried about scalding them and wish to goodness that the parents would do the sensible thing and sit him down out of harm's way. Likewise the elderly with sticks are much better sitting down. Anyone with a pushchair or pram is better sitting down and getting it out of the way, as is someone with lots of bags.
I have never stopped anyone from getting a seat and I have always managed to find a seat when on my own, it is much easier when there is one of you.
People make it sound as if you only go in for the coffee, it is often a social occasion and you don't want the coffee if you can't have the seats that you want.

I always sit at a table while my DH gets the drinks.

But I'm disabled so I'm not standing in a queue in pain just so some folk don't think I'm a queue jumper and mean and selfish. [blows raspberry][top trumps]