Gay Chinese welshspeakers

[PatFig]

WTF

What a waste of money

MIFLAW English (or rather American) is a universal language

You will find that in most PLC companies be hey Swiss, German, Swedish, Italian (but not French) English will be widely spoken and all high level meetings will be conducted in English

When Renault took over Chrysler\Dodge in the UK, all the managers had to learn French, when Volvo trucks took over Renault trucks all the managers had to learn English

My father works for Volvo and was really pleased when this happened

So much bullshit. So little brains.

okaren - I don't understand why this bothers you so much? I have a feeling that you would be the first shouting if all signposts in certain areas of the UK were changed to Erdu (for example) as the majority of the people living there speak and understand that language.

"You will find that in most PLC companies be hey Swiss, German, Swedish, Italian (but not French) English will be widely spoken and all high level meetings will be conducted in English"

FFS - I know this is a FACT - but have you ever stopped to consider whether it is REASONABLE?

What is so special about English - an incredibly complicated, illogical and vocabulary-heavy language - that it should be a world language?

Why do you imagine the French are different?

Now here's something that might excite you if you have children or grandchildren. Recent(ish) research by the British Council suggests that, before long, being a native English speaker is going to be a DISADVANTAGE in the global workplace. Monolingual Brits will be competing against indians and Chinese with very good English AND native Hindi/Chinese and (quite possibly) one or more other foreign languages or dialects; but, because everyone speaks international English (rather than British English) there will be no offsetting advantage in being a native speaker. Indeed, in some parts of the world, it will make matters worse because it will be too specialist and hard to understand.

And when that comes, everyone who has rested on their laurels because "everyone speaks English", everyone who has been disparaging about the value of foreign languages, will be, to use a good old English word, fucked.

Yes that is very true SendSAEtoUsualAddress, your full bullshit and have no brains.

The debate is about resources and that putting and duplicate signs and printing duplicate forms and leaflets is a waste of resources when everyone can understand the English signs and only a small number of people can understand the Welsh ones

Bothers me that the money spent on this duplication could be spent on keeping a nursery open or two or three, or a day care centre or police on the streets, or spent on a host of different things that are currently being cut

It is a total waste

understand brainless and rude SendSAEtoUsualAddress

MIFLAW what is special about the English language is that the Americans use it and their influence on global trade over the past 100 years or so.

What will the universal language be in the future I have no idea. No reason to presume it would not continue to be English

Reason I am saying this English is already widely spoken in many of the emerging economies, in China many university courses are taught in English only

Virtually every school in the world teaches English (be it the American version).

If it is a different language then we will have to adapt.

If you would like to enlighten me a to why the French are different I would be very interested

My first line: "So much bullshit. So little Brains" was referring to the DM article.

The second part of my post. The part which began "Okaren - " was directed at you. Do you see how that works?

The Welsh language has deep deep connotations for many of the Welsh speaking people. It was illegal to learn and speak the language and this is all strongly felt, still, by many Welsh people. It is a waste in your opinion but not in the opinion of many Welsh people

Oh and your insults could do with some brushing up on.

If you don't have bilingual signs and documents then the language disappears from public view, and that helps it die. It will be a private family thing but with no relevance to public life. I think it would be unreasoanble to do that.

Actually, I think Welsh signs are important. These are the original place names, and they are evocative and of real emotional and cultural significance. I really don't think the expense argument is sufficient to displace something so deep-seated and important.

It is also very common all over Europe. Places like Corsica and Sardinia have bi-lingual signs even though their ancient dialects are really very little spoken now.

maybe they do SendSAEtoUsualAddress it is not something I usually do,

I got the wrong end of the stick, or maybe I haven't since I am the one who is putting forward the argument.

Was it illegal to speak Welsh? I know it wasn't taught or used in work places but SendSAEtoUsualAddress, in any case that that was a long time ago

I know it is strongly felt and no one is saying it should be taught or encouraged, my DDs are learning it. I think it is great that people can go to their bank and supermarket and speak Welsh. Wish I could!

Duplicating street signage and road markings, forms and leaflets if everyone can understand the English version to satisfy a small group of people makes no sense.

Lots of people feel strongly about all sorts of things.

Is English your first language okaren?

EldritchCleavage might have been true in the past that languages disappear in such a way you describe but with todays communication I am not sure it is true. Cornish (Kernewek or Kernowek) is being revived but last time i been to Cornwell there wasn't two signs for everything. Although not been to Cornwell for years so it might have changed.

No one is saying place names should be changed.

Again, what is the point of duplicating signage like "slow", "exit" and so on.

"It is also very common all over Europe. Places like Corsica and Sardinia have bi-lingual signs even though their ancient dialects are really very little spoken now."

and your point EldritchCleavage.

why ShirleyKnot?

Because it doesn't seem like it.

You are very aggressive as well.

Sadly the things Bout W;esh being important is true Okaren: I know our lcoal big HE employer has been instructed to take no more non Welsh speaking employees even though this is not a Welsh speaking area (if it were would wave flag in agreement).

DD is right, that's all these things are: was a lot on politics show about abuse of rights earlier as well- well if you;re not given any they can;t be absused can they?

Oh of course it's revenge for being told off for not applying an equality assessment before cuts.

Usual crap then. Same old politics. Etc

The French are different because they are just like the British! They have a perfectly good language, with a massive and rich culture behind it, and huge economic success, and don't see why they should stop using it to make life easy for people they have now effectively taken over. No wonder the Brits don't like it - it's too close to home!

I am not saying that English will cease to be the international language. I am saying that the very fact that it IS the international language will increasingly disadvantage native speakers who have rested on their laurels. How many call centres do you think there are in Sunderland and Glasgow dealing with banking and utility customers in Mumbai? Native speakers are being systematically supplanted by non-natives who speak very good English and have other languages too; native speaking is no longer necessary, and those people on the dole queues of the North East have no other aces to play because they have been let down by a system that says, "don't bother learning foreign languages, everyone else speaks English"!

I sort of agree with both of you; where Welsh ahs been spoken it's important.

Where I roughly am historically it was- well England until quite recently LOL.

I do appreciate signs etc though- i've learned quite a bit to help the boys learn from that sort of thing. Useful skills, languages.

Yes ShirleyKnot, English is my first language. Born in Wales, lived in Anglesey then my parents moved to Cheshire, now living in Wales again.

Am I aggressive? Not meaning to be

ignore my aggressive response to SendSAEtoUsualAddress, i thought they were being aggressive to me so I retaliate

But MIFLAW, if you take your argument to it's conclusion you should be supporting a bilingual state, not condemning it! I thought it was shown that growing up bilingual or learning another language as a child makes it easier to acquire further languages? Inhabitants of Wales will have a head start in the new world economy!

I'll just say again that I would be really interested to know whether this argument goes on in Catalonia. The situation there is very similar to Wales in some respects.

In Canada everything is in English and French, despite French being the minority language, and no-one bats an eyelid.

god it must be so tiring to be a daily mail reader, all that viriol and outrage.

NotRightNow

I do support a bilingual state.

And I think that spending on Welsh language is money well spent.

Not sure where I've said anything to the contrary.

I have spent the whole day today on a course with the LEA. The course was presented through the medium of Welsh, as the majority of the people present work in settings/schools which are Welsh medium (those who don't work in bilingual ones). The people presenting the course were first language Welsh speaking. 90% of the people on the course were first language Welsh speaking.

The council paid for translation facilities (an interpreter plus headphones etc) for those few people on the course who didn't speak enough Welsh to follow what was being said.

Playing devil's advocate here, but as it was such a minority that the translation facility was for, would that be classed as a waste of council money?

Oh, and BTW "Kidwelly" is the anglicised spelling, the Welsh spelling is Cydweli.

Yes I know how to spell Kidwelly - I was born there. I am addressing posters in English though, am I not?

I now live in Switzerland and everything comes in 3 languages with requests for Romansch available. There are many triple language signs actually, also menus and instructions. The majority language speakers don't bulldoze the minorities and insist they all learn Swiss German. Why would they?

My grandparents didn't speak any English, why would they? Why should they have to?

I also work for a global brand who are mainly based in Germany. I feel ashamed of my language skills as do many of my UK colleagues. Meetings are held in English and German in equal amounts and all communication is in both languages. This ensures a thorough understanding by all.

We have Chinese interns who speak German, French and English as well as Mandarin at a business level.

Regarding the Daily Mail article, this article from Atomic Spin has dug into things a bit more to find the truth behind DM's 'omg political correctness gone mad headlines'.

British Tabloids make for entertaining reading but please, don't let them influence your opinion about anything that matters.

WOW, this is a hot potato of a debate!

I don't understand why signs (or anything else for that matter) shouldn't be written bilingually? I live in Wales and our signs are always in Welsh first, followed by the English. Closer to Cardiff, the signs are English first followed by Welsh! Now that is something I never understood!!

My husband is from Scotland and is learning the language slowly. He is able to read and recognise all the Welsh sign names and even though he doesn't always pronounce them correctly, he does try. If the signs were in English only, noone would ever know the names of some places!

It's a shame that it is an issue for some. We live in Wales and should be proud of the fact that we do have our own language and identity!

I love that song! Is that why you've got your name yellow?

MIFLAW - you said this:
"I also fully agree with Okaren about not wasting money on signage for the minority."

Were you making a joke and I didn't get it? Sorry, if so.