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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be proud of working at one of the few schools

115 replies

Toastiewoastie · 19/01/2011 19:48

that doesn't have a uniform;

here

I always hated school uniform and nothing has changed my opinion.

OP posts:
Lamorna · 20/01/2011 08:17

I am just guessing but the 2 DCs on the left appear to have a school sweatshirt which looks much better than the boy in the foreground with the huge logo. A good compromise would appear to be the school sweatshirt with own bottoms.(it would at least offer protection from handknitted jumpers!)

coldtits · 20/01/2011 08:31

When small children don't wear uniforms, they don't express themselves, they express their mother's purse.

Lamorna · 20/01/2011 08:52

Or their mother's idea of suitable school clothes and her thoughts that you should be strong and not need to fit in!

cantspel · 20/01/2011 08:54

If havings no school uniform allows them to express themselves and learn individuality so well why does the ofsted state

They behave responsibly around the school, and in lessons they readily cooperate with their teachers' expectations. However, at times they are too quick to seek answers from their teachers rather than working out individually or in groups how they might find solutions, which would enable them to continue their independent learning.

cantspel · 20/01/2011 08:56

Individality to me is the ability to free think not be able to choose a cool hoodie to wear each morning

PlanetLizard · 20/01/2011 09:15

Agree with cantspel. If children wear school uniform then they have to come up with other types of individuality rather than just clothes.

InPraiseOfBacchus · 20/01/2011 09:59

Uniform never puts kids on an "equal footing". I went to a private school with a strict uniform. Girls would come in with designer bags, hairstyles, outdoor coats, and, in later years, makeup. Then there would endless comparison of what the trendy girls were changing into in the loos at the end of the day. IMO it was just something to market the school by, and make it look better than it perhaps was. Something to amuse the parents and give them something that was clearly a private school uniform to parade around.

flippinggorgeous · 20/01/2011 10:39

Not having a uniform is fine for the children in the photo, they all have really nice clothes (good quality labels). As a teen I remember missing non-uniform days at school as I used to be so scared of standing out as poor next to the other girls in their fashionable clothes. At least day to day my clothes blended in and so could I.

jonicomelately · 20/01/2011 10:43

It's weird that the two posters who argue with my contention that uniform puts kids on an equal footing were privately educated.
As I (and many others) have already said many poor children are grateful for uniforms as it prevents them from obviously standing out.
I can't comment on comparing designer handbags in private school as that very much wasn't my school experience.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 20/01/2011 10:51

Like SarahStratton, I prefer my children to go to school to learn. Which means I prefer teachers to teach, and not to piss about obsessing over pupils wearing the wrong colour tights.

A uniform of sorts is fine at primary, but come secondary it's infantalising and, importantly, the source of all kinds of utter bollocks. I dropped out of school at 15 and a contributing factor to that was being continually picked on for the most minor uniform infringements. How could I respect a man who gave me a detention for wearing black socks over my navy tights because my feet were cold on the walk to school?

I don't believe that it's an equaliser, either. Unless schools are going to start issuing new sets of regulation uniform each term, it's going to be pretty obvious whose parents have money, whose parents are horribly strict and so on.

Lamorna · 20/01/2011 11:00

I think that not having a uniform would have made me be a school refuser. Unless you have done it you can have no idea of the misery and embarrassment caused by a mother who doesn't think that you need to fit in. Give me petty rules about socks any day, at least they apply to everyone.
I think it is the other way around, primary without is fine, but necessary at secondary level until 6th form, when hopefully they know you well enough to get beyond the clothes and you have the ability to earn your own money and buy your own clothes.

jonicomelately · 20/01/2011 11:09

I think we all want our children to go to school to learn, uniform or not Confused

I don't think enforcing a uniform is 'infantalising' either. They are still children, even at secondary school. At least uniforms prevent girls from wearing inappropriate clothes some of the time

I honestly think unless you've seen or experienced first hand not having clothes that can even remotely compete with other childrens' clothes, you'll never really understand why so many children from poorer backgrounds cherish their uniforms. If that upsets a few middle-class non-convential mothers tough.

Lamorna · 20/01/2011 11:22

Exactly jonicomelately, I would much rather upset the 'free spirits,' than cause real distress to those who can't compete for what ever reason.If Janai dropped out of school for such a petty reason as socks I really couldn't care less!!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 20/01/2011 11:50

I didn't drop out of school over socks! Grin

But the atmosphere was one of constant nitpicking over the pettiest of things, which made the whole place feel very oppressive.

I remember mufti days being so much more relaxed and conducive to learning (and to good relationships with teachers), likewise college (where I did my GCSEs at 16/17).

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 20/01/2011 11:54

wrt bullying - there were children bullied for not looking right or fitting into one of the tribes. I was one of them for a while.

But honestly, where teachers are utterly focussed on the small stuff, the bigger stuff (bullying, learning) can get neglected. Our school did FA about bullying but obsessed wildly about dress.

SuchProspects · 20/01/2011 13:32

jonicomelately I disagree with the contention that uniform puts all kids on an equal footing and I wasn't privately educated.

I went to a secondary without uniform and I was one of the poorer kids. Before that secondary I went to a middle school with uniform. I stuck out a lot more at the middle school than I did at the Secondary school. And my mother had less money for clothes at middle school because we had to get uniform and regular clothes.

Kids know who the rich and cool kids are regardless of a uniform or not. As so many posters here point out, dress is hardly the only way to express yourself.

I don't doubt that some kids will have a harder time without uniform. But I think it misses the point that other kids will have a harder time with uniform.

jonicomelately · 20/01/2011 14:35

I don't doubt what you say Suchprospects but it's difficult to understand how you stood out more when wearing uniform than when you wore your own clothes Confused

Megatron · 20/01/2011 14:57

YABU if this is the only reason you are proud of working there. I think that's a bit odd. Confused

SuchProspects · 20/01/2011 15:15

Because, when there's a set uniform and you can't afford the "good" version or enough of any version, so you end up with the second hand and patched stuff, and the pinafore dress that fit you at the beginning of the year but which is showing your knickers when you bend down in drama by the end of the year, and the white blouse with paint splats on it that you have to keep wearing until the end of the year because you only have three blouses, when that happens it's pretty clear that you do not have the resources that most other kids have.

When there isn't a set uniform you can be more creative, you can choose clothes that aren't going to show wear and tear so easily, you can fit into the jeans-and-T-shirt crowd, or the oversized-dads-sweatshirt crowd, you can find counterfeit brand name goods, or you can make a virtue of necessity and make your clothes unique so that you don't end up labeled. My staple was the jeans-and-T-shirt crowd, though I also liked having a go at bleaching, dying and painting my clothes - something that quite a lot of kids did since they could, regardless of their financial status.

jonicomelately · 20/01/2011 16:28

Suchprospects.
But everybody's uniforms are knackered after the first few weeks anyway aren't they? Unless you go to school in a very affluent area wouldn't everybody be in the same boat?

Your experiences wouldn't apply today in any event. Uniforms are much cheaper (Tesoc etc) and children these days prefer labels to custom-made.

SuchProspects · 20/01/2011 16:51

No, not everybody's uniforms were that knackered after the first few weeks. I went to a pretty average school in a working class town.

And I can tell the poor kids by the same sorts of markers at the schools near me that have uniform so I think my experiences are just as relevant today.

jonicomelately · 20/01/2011 17:00

OK SuchProspects. You win Hmm

SuchProspects · 20/01/2011 17:33

Really? Is there a prize? Grin

Lamorna · 20/01/2011 17:48

My DSs went to school with ragged cuffs etc on the school uniform, I didn't buy more unless I had to and I could afford it.I don't think it was remarkable, others were the same. I think it was far less noticeable than the photo given in OP where the DC whose mother thinks grey trousers,white shirt and plain sweatshirt are suitable would really stand out among the jeans and logo tops.
I don't mind non uniform ,if there is some sort of dress code (very plain) and I don't think that the boy in the centre is suitably dressed for school, although I have no doubt from his stance, attitude and clothes that he is a confident, popular DS, one of the 'football' gang and has no fear that his mother either won't spend out on clothes or will force him off to school in something he doesn't like.

NorthernGobshite · 20/01/2011 17:56

I am glad my child wears uniform. Its smart, it reduces differences in the haves/have nots, it stops competition around labels and stops arguments about what to wear every day.

Children express their individuality in other ways and I am glad that at 6 my dd doesn't give a rats ass about whats she's wearing! There is plenty of time for her to worry whether she is 'on trend'.