to think that income is pretty irrelevant compared to wealth/when you got on the housing ladder/what your parents give you

[soggy14]

dh would be classed by many on here (from what I've seen on other threads) as a high earner but we can't come clsoe to affording things like private schools, non-camping holidays etc which some seem to assume that anyone on high salaries will be able to. People we know locally earn far less but do use private schools, have foreign holidays etc because their paretns help with the school fees or because they got on the housing ladder before the price hike or because they have been given or left money/houses etc. Someone quoted £70K on one thread but that will only get you a mortgage of low to mid two hundred thousands which does not get you much of a family home in many areas adn will not come close to enablin gmost to afford school fees. Am I the only one who finds this?

No that is not what I was saying and of course people who have additional benefits on high salries as you have mentioned should include that as well. However these are not often cash unless as a bonus, which i presume anyone would include. I was simply pointing out that it is erroneous to say your income is simply that of 18500.

When you got on the housing ladder is definitely a factor. But interest rates are so low I am surprised that everyone hasn't got more disposable income.

I purchased a house in 1988 and had a mortgage of £75K the payment was £1050 per month.

I now have a mortgage of £150K and it costs £292.

I think the main problem is people always spend to their means or more.

I suppose you have a better idea if instead of thinking in terms of £70000 or £12000 per year, you think in terms of take home per month-mortgage/rent. Then you get closer. As for comparing, it is just human nature, people beat themselves up thinking others are more canny with their money, but often it is these other factors. I know for us, it is transport to get two of us to work that is the killer, on top of the mortgage.

dalene ?saying there are also lots of people who could have got on the property ladder sooner but pissed about during their 20s isn't really fair. I was at university and couldn't, dh did get on the property ladder and got badly burnt when prices crashed in the late 80s. Hindsight is a wonderful thing :) but gettign on the property ladder is not easy when you have to pay high rents and someone save a deposit. Also it is not just that we expect a certain lifestyle - more that you want somethign in exchange for the long hours adn stress. At least if we could afford to fly off somewhere we'd feel better about the fact that dh is working until 3am the night before in order to be able to go adn then often havin got take calls on holiday. When you're packing the tent in the car and having to take the calls from a campsite whilst hearin gthat you are supposedly the "super rich" it does grate somewhat :)

TSC - but I for example pay tax and don't get any of that back, so yes I would consider your income to include your "income" from benefits. Same for "in kind" benfits that some people get. Also trying not to be argumentative!:o

'As well as disposable income, to what extent do others supplement disposable income with credit cards and loans? We don't, besides the mortgage, and own our cars outright. Is this where we're going wrong?'

Nope no overdrafts or loans but I am an mse convert! It changed my life and my money stretches way further now. I love it and love Martin Lewis, hes a legend . He makes it so people with very little income can eat out at nice places and be able to go on weekends away, he has reduced loads of my bills and I love it.

annapoly, we have a long-term fixed rate mortgage, which means we're not benefiting from the big savings now. I think quite a few people are in this position. I'm not moaning about it, we're paying extra but over the term of the mortgage I expect the fixed rate will benefit us, but even if it doesn't we're happy to pay a bit extra for the stability.

We're nearly 50 and I've added up all our outgoings and all our incomings (both work f/time) and includes school fees. Yes by most people's standards we are rich and yes, we made the most of the 80's/90's property booms. But I remember becoming a SAHM and dropping an income in 1996 when our mortgage was 80k and DH was earning 40k when interest rates were high and watching every penny, including making DH packed lunches. OTH some of it is relative - we are not extravagant, we have one car and it's 10 years old (OK about to be replaced), our furniture is fairly old and tatty, the living room carpet is threadbare, the children don't get expensive presents and actually they don't ask for much. I buy my clothes from Per Una/M&S and DH probably better than that but has to for work. We have NO debt but I am quite sure that some of the mums around here, especially the younger, continental banker's wives probably look down their noses at us. But I don't care and my glass has always been half full.

Ultimately the most important thing and the classiest thing anyone can do is to be respectful of others and their individual circumstances. Being nice and treating others well costs nothing.

I started a response but there's no way of not making it sound smug - DH and I are 50 and were lucky with when we bought our first and current house.

Annapolly said:I think the main problem is people always spend to their means or more.

• well, we didn't. I've never lusted after designer anything and would rather have a sensible car than a prestigious one. So between luck and prudence we can both work part time now and still have excess disposable income.

My mortgage is £125 per month and my income is approx £900 per month so I class myself as ok money wise.

I haven't had a holiday for a few years but plan on going abroad this year.

I'm a single parent,I barely go out and buy alot of second hand clothes but don't have money worries.

I have always spent within my means, never had any debt and pay my credit card off in full every month.

YANBU - it does make a difference.

DH and I would be considered higher earners but don't really consider ourselves well off -comfortable yes but well off no...

DD is at private school ( for many reasons not necessarily the obvious ones but that's a different thread) and we always felt a bit like the poor relations until one day....

A bit of background - DH and I both work full time and earen between us between £105k and £120k (it fluctuates) we have a nice (modest) home, modest cars, lovely holidays (our one big luxury!!)BUT we are not dripping in designer clothes or jewels and I used to feel very inferior at the school gates with all the mums wafting about in chanel or prada until one parent night out when it transpired after a few wines that a very large portion of the families get school fees paid by the grandparents or they got their house as a wedding present (!) so sonce then I've stopped feeling inferior and instead feel bloody proud that two kids from a council estate that didn't have a penny between them and through sheer grit have made it ( a bit) and everything we have we have paid for ourselves.

And breath....that felt good :)

not to be disrespectful but where i live we are totally average, with us taking home less than £11000 a year inc tax cred and cb, not entitled to housing benift or council help, and after bills have £95 per month left over. no debts at all (worked two jobs to clear everything before dd was born) and now as a consequence no credit rating.
tried today to get mortgage with housing association help and refused as we are "low earners" despite dp working 40+ hours a week (as will i when i return from maternity), so stuck in small draughty house with no option to save for deposit.
£70k. think your selves lucky

"I now have a mortgage of £150K and it costs £292."

This has to be an interest only mortgage which means you should have some other type of repayment plan at the same time.

Ah is this the £70k thread????

I think most people have and have had no parental help. Like a lot of the older people on there we had very difficult times (child care more than one salary, baby clothes all from oxfam) and didn't over spend when we had spare money and over 20 or 30 years we therefore did reasonably well and I do work harder than most people too. I also remember the days of 33% basic rate tax, no tax credits or childcare help and 12 - 15% mortgage interest rates when mortgages were hard to get. I'm not sure times have ever been good in some sort of past golden time.

Better get back to generating some income...

This is not the 70k thread. This is an offshoot. The 70k thread was about school fees.

Laurie noticed on a reply you said foreign holiday is £3k for a week for 3 - we are doing 3 weeks in a gite for 6 in France for that (OK not including food) but that would be part of our normal weekly spending anyway. Sometimes foreign holidays are cheaper than UK and you usually get better weather too!

Not sure what to make of this - I've seen a few threads like this and there are people earning £120k who think their income is modest, others earning £11k who are managing to get by. I feel that anyone earning more than me must be better off, surely its natural to feel like that, but I don't know the answer - common sense would dictate that if you get help from family then your income will go further. Wouldn't it be good if the collective brain of Mumsnet could solve this puzzle?!

Agree with those who say its a lot to do with housing costs. we are locked into a 5 year fixed rate and can't get out of it without paying a penalty of close of £10,000. Ok it was silly of us but seemed sensible at the time. Just a few years makes a huge difference but we couldn't get on the ladder earlier as we live in an area where rents were so high it took ages to save even a small deposit. We now earn in excess of £70k but are by no means well off and private school is certainly not an option. We live in a tiny house and the car is 12 years old. Ultimately it is all relative and even the people on here who get annoyed with the "£70k + whingers" are well off compared to the starving millions.

Yes, all down to when you got on the housing ladder. £70k seems like a huge salary, but if you only earn that as you work in London, then to even buy a small semi in an average area it would be £500k+ so a mortgage of 7x salary which isn't really doable.

4 x £70k would buy a 2 or maybe 3 bedroom flat. Or you could move much further out and have massive commute, and live far from family etc.

My parents wouldn't pay school fees, but did give us deposit for a house - gave us £25k (they'd saved for me since I was born) but as that was in 1997 it went a long way. They'd never be able to pay school fees now, they have retired.

We have a good salary between us but never considered private education - for 4 would be mega amount and TBH the local schools are a walk away and are pretty good.

Our first house my mum leant us money but we paid back (possibly not with interest can't recall). Didn't get any other parental help either really.

There are many ways to make your money stretch and it really depends on what your priorities are. Ours have been a nice house over say lots of holidays. Would recommend Martin Lewis site and if you have 'excess' money and a mortgage then making overpayments can save loads especially as rates are so low - saved well over £2k worth of interest last year by overpaying the max amount each month. You can save years off the debt - people don't realise how much interest alone you pay on a mortgage.

Don't have latest techie gadgets - DS2 just had a new basic phone that actually ended up paying us money - his friends have nice smart phones but they don't have regular music lessons or saving up for a £severalK new flute DS wants. Realising these are choices to be made about how you spend your money is a very important lesson. We still regularly shop at Lidl and other supermarkets too as prefer to get good value so the money does stretch out more.

Rent 600
Council tax 120
Gas 35
Electric 25
Water 15
Food 175
(per month)

So nearly 12k for the year for essentials. Unless you have lower rent/mortgage there's not much saving to be had there. It's why I'm always a bit sceptical of people who say they survive on 12k a year and imply you can do the same when it's not really possible for many because of housing costs.

soggy14 totally agree. i'm one of those who has worked my way up to a high income but we are still very low wealth and i'm beginning to see this more and more as people who earn far less than me live more privileged lives for the reasons you have laid out.