to think that income is pretty irrelevant compared to wealth/when you got on the housing ladder/what your parents give you

[soggy14]

dh would be classed by many on here (from what I've seen on other threads) as a high earner but we can't come clsoe to affording things like private schools, non-camping holidays etc which some seem to assume that anyone on high salaries will be able to. People we know locally earn far less but do use private schools, have foreign holidays etc because their paretns help with the school fees or because they got on the housing ladder before the price hike or because they have been given or left money/houses etc. Someone quoted £70K on one thread but that will only get you a mortgage of low to mid two hundred thousands which does not get you much of a family home in many areas adn will not come close to enablin gmost to afford school fees. Am I the only one who finds this?

let me finish that last sentence:

but can understand why a family on £15k might find someone on £70k saying the are "struggling, really struggling" slightly obscene!!"

2 salaries at 35k = more takehome than 1 x 70k, even though the 70k sounds a lot more impressive.

Assuming no student debt:
2 x 35k = £4,346/month
1 x 70k = £3,967/month
so £379/month difference.
numbers from here

Of course you then may have to factor in childcare costs, commuting costs, etc, which would be different if there were one or two parents working.

I would be genuinely interested to find out what is the least amount of income people are really living on. On the 70K thread there were lots of people saying 70k is loads, which it is, and that they live on 700 a month or whatever for a family of 4 or 5. I cannot believe that they do that without having either subsidised rent or other benefits? So who is on a low income and doesn't get any additional benefits and pays market rent or a mortgage?

Dh's income has been cut by half since he became a teacher - we couldn't afford to buy a house around here before that!

We've owned houses before, but always lost money. Not on the actual house iyswim, but swapping exactly the same property for a different location and paying (more than) twice as much for the privilege.

The only way we'll own property again is if our parents still own theirs when they die and leave it to us. We have no disposable income to save towards a deposits, and going on salary multiples, well let's say a one bed flat is out of our price range atm (3 times dh's salary is £60k - cheapest 1 bed around here at last 3 times that!).

Meh. Rent is double what we were paying on our last mortgage too.

House prices are now so ridiculous in the SE, that I can well imagine a family of say, five, struggling to meet a mortgage, childcare costs, travel costs, pension contributions etc.

As for private school, of my closest friends, only one gets help from GPs, and another had their first house bought. The rest of us pay our own way.

im very lucky to have my own house. DH earns 15k pa. we only have this house as DH's dad passed away and there was a life insurance policy which they used to buy our house, they bought it for his sister to live in but after 3 weeks didn't like it so they mortgaged it split the money and rented it out. The guy who rented it out then decided to move and me and DH were getting married etc. and living in a one bed flat so we took it over.

we would have never been able to get a house if our house wasn't there iyswim.

TSC - What does that work out as take home each month? I assume you get CB, would you get tax credits?

'So who is on a low income and doesn't get any additional benefits and pays market rent or a mortgage'

I am on £1500 a month joint income from my husband working 45 hours and me working 25 hours.

We get cb £81.20 and currently get £56 towards childcare a week but nothing else. We have a mortgage, car, council tax, all bills etc and pay it all ourselves. It isnt a struggle really but then I am not a very materialistic person.

Also we are both only 26 and the mortgage is in the South.

dh is on a good salary but I don't even earn enough to pay tax. Would pay too much in child care if I went back FT t make it worth it (am in education so salaries are low). I can't see how anyone can live on £700 a month - our mortage is twice that, and then we have council tax, car tax, ins (2 cars as we are out in the sticks so one is impossible) utilities etc etc. If we both worked we'd be loads better off *Trillain) don't forget that your 2 couples on £35K woudl keep their child benefit :) and please do not all post tellign me how hard life is on £15K or whatever - there are always those bette ran worse off than any individual so it is pointless to compare (as someone said). My question was just brought about by the frustration of the constant assumption that anyone on £70K household income is rollign in it. We are not - we are also often cold, have to make sandwiches and go camping. I'm not after symphathy :) just an understanding that £70K does not always equal private school whilst loaded grandpareents and/or luck with housing and a far lower income often does.

noodle69 But how much per month is your mortgage?

YANBU

It makes a massive difference.

I hope that we are in a position to at least help my son on to the property ladder at an age when DH and I were able to buy our first homes with no help. Ideally even start him off in life completely debt-free (only assuming that he fully understands what we did to get him there and what he needs to do to keep it). The massive house price rises have definitely kept our family size small, and that is with us not doing too badly at all out of it and having a 'high' joint income.

yabu to complain about how hard it is living on 70k.

yanbu to think that other things than income play a very important part in life.

We have a family income of £24k. We have a 4 bedroom detached house and will pay off the mortgage whilst still in our 30s. We bought a house before the price hike, sold it at the peak and made a fair profit and dh's parents contributed to the deposit.

However, we dont have much disposable income, at all.

I know I've posted this before but the threads of the last few days have made me want to post it again as we have the magic £4,000 per month income (the £70k everyone is talking about) and I'm totally at some of the point people have made about private school/choices/holidays/housing.

We have none of that.

This is what we spend in direct debits:

1. £1350 - mortgage 23 years to go - our house is a crappy 3 up/3 down - no room wider or longer than 10 feet (our only bathroom is 5 foot by 4 foot) - it's basically a damp/cold/slug filled corridor - basically this but without being as stylish or in as good an area

Oh, and we couldn't 'afford' it - years ago dh's dad guaranteed the mortgage

1. £320 for 10 years loan to insulate and put floors/windows/electrics in above hole house.

1. £600 per month for 2 'new-ish' cars (2 years old now) Citroen C1's - the cheapest new cars we could buy that would benefit from the scrappage scheme - most importantly only bought because we couldn't 'afford' second hand ones - we couldn't get loans due to huge house loan above and both 15 year old cars died at the same time. It was new car or don't go to work.

1. Car insurance/petrol/car tax each month - £450-ish

1. Insurances (pet/house/union/life cover/pipe cover) - £150

1. Gas/electric/wood/coal for stove - £130

1. Council Tax - £140

1. Phone contract - £30

1. Professional organisations - £20

10. Water - £21

11. Garage rental - £40

12. DD's school dinners/activities/pocket money/clothing allowance/phone - £355 (non-negotiable - need to come out of fostering payments)

What's that £3300 ? - that leaves £700 disposable income a month for all food/toiletries/clothes/emergencies/haircuts/entertainment/birthdays/pets.

I manage fine on that but I have no idea how anyone could afford private schools/fancy holidays on that. That £700 needs to be budgeted carefully.

I have no idea if I will get a roasting for this but I just wanted to show what I spent my money on.

We don't even have in-date passports and our holiday every year is a very cheap caravan - but I think still really expensive as we have to go in school holidays - it was £600 for a week in Dorset.

tyler - Its only £640 at the mo so it is cheap, was a bit more when we got it but with interest rates low I will admit it is very cheap at the moment.

Council tax is £120 and then we have water which is £62 ar we are in a flat and cant go on water meter, then we have car insurance, £100 petrol for my husbands commute, house insurance, car insurance (high cause my husband is young), internet, sky, rest of the childcare, mobiles etc.

I will add we pay all that and we still go out every weekend, have holiday every year and weekend breaks just me and my husband 3 times a year with the money left over etc.

You see that makes a huge difference doesn't it TSC. You add almost 50% to your after tax salary. That is what i find so disingenuous when people (not you) say we survive on 15000 a year or whatever when in fact they do no such thing!

I can see (through gritted teeth) how someone on £70k thinks they are hard up. It's not that they dont have any money but they dont have enough for the lifestyle they 9and a lot of people) would expect on that income. TBH if I was earning that I'd expect a European holiday a year and to be able to send 2 kids through private school (£6-9kpa here). I'd also expect to live in a 3 bed house with garden in an ok area.

Something's gone wrong if these expectations are unrealistic/unreasonable.

Personally with 4 of us on £18k, that kind of money sounds like a fantasy.

But, as I've come to learn on MN, we actually have a higher disposable income than a lot of people on much higher incomes.

I do think that tax/tax credits/benefits should take more consideration of assets/wealth/income from relatives instead of just looking at income. eg I know someone on benefits whose parents pay their child's private school fees. (Shouldn't this get classed as income?)

Most of the people I know who got on the property ladder in their early 20s did so with help from their parents towards the deposit. This then saves/makes them money for years, and makes them better off than others on the same income who didn't have rich parents.

But then there are also lots of people who could have got on the property ladder sooner but pissed about during their 20s. They are now paying a very high price for their foolishness. At the time I told several friends they should buy (they could afford it) but they just spent all their money as it came in on cars, drinking, holidays, clothes and are now still renting (or back living with parents) and are paying double what I am for my mortgage.

Financial education really needs to be taught in schools.

TSC - Not a criticism but not really comparing like with like. Your income is actually that of some one on 20500! It's what tax credits are designed for but does make all these salary discussions somewhat moot unless people count all their income.

Very interesting thread! Have been wondering about this subject myself as DH is a high earner, but we never seem to have as much cash for clothes, cars, holidays and so on as friends and family who don't seem to earn as much.

As well as disposable income, to what extent do others supplement disposable income with credit cards and loans? We don't, besides the mortgage, and own our cars outright. Is this where we're going wrong?

"TBH if I was earning that I'd expect a European holiday a year and to be able to send 2 kids through private school (£6-9kpa here). I'd also expect to live in a 3 bed house with garden in an ok area".

Darlene - wouldn't it be lovely if the above were true but since a nice 3 bed semi is 350k and private school is £12k a year and blardy foreign holidays in school holidays is £3 grand for a week for a family of 3 (all round here) then NO CHANCE

I don't think we are hard up at all on £70k but that £700 'disposable' a month is not more than my two closest friends who have a lovely (council house- which they own and is worth more than mine) and tax credits - we have literally the same life.

TSC - no work benefits here and no child benefit as dd is fostered.