To think that it's not a crime to be middle class?

[upsylazy]

I consider myself middle class (there, I've said it) and am a bit concerned at the current tendency to use it as a term of abuse eg "you're so middle class" with "white middle class" being a euphemism for a smug arsehole. I would definitely consider myself lower middle class, I don't live in a big house, have a cleaner or au pair and my DCs don't have stupid names. I am not heavily into organic food (too expensive) and have been known to go to (gasp) McDonalds. However, i still feel a twinge of guilt at being middle class. Hopefully, this is not a national phenomena but I have recently noted a trend among a small group of (upper) middle class women to ditch the Boden and Monsoon for Primark gear and start talking in a mock Saarrrff London accent. This seems to be taking things a step too far and is just inverted snobbery.

re: MC as an insult -

my sister does this, she'll say 'Oh you're so middle class...'

meaning

1. i am boring
2. I am close-minded
3. too conscious of status

I usualy think when she says this that

1. she's my sister...calling me MC will surely backfire?
2. what she terms 'boring and status-conscious' i feel is actually another way of saying 'considerate and wise'.
3. if she is my sister, she will know me to be fairly open-minded.

obviously i now understand what she was really intending to say was more to do with the use and abuse of courgettes.

What defines people as middle class? Do you have to have a particular occupation?

Sorry for the dumb post, but I really don't know!

...then there's the journalist definition of MC -

well-monied journalist in e.g. The Times uses MC to mean -
wealthier than them, less open-minded than them generally less cool and well-informed.

this shows huge self-delusion on saids jornalists part.

journo scribing for Left-wing red-top uses MC to mean -

smug, ignorant, don't-know-they're born. typical phrase 'they know nothing about real life'

right-wing Red top may also employ the above usage when targetting a specific hate-group (especially female private-school users), but also...

normal, salt-of-the-earth, 'moral majority' eg 'middle class values'

..But again, they should really have recognised it is All About The Zucchini.

Very pleased that so many have accepted my classifications without needing further explanation. No 'courgette test' required to slot yourself in correctly!

OP, YANBU. Nowt wrong with being middle class. Definitely something wrong with being insufferably smug about your class status within your own self-defined hierarchy though. Tbh, of all the people I know, the ones who are most guilty of this are my friends from the North-West who take massive - and vocal - pride in being working class. They are - among other things - lecturers, doctors and accountants. One of them is a decorator, so I'd consider letting him off, except that he is a decorator who specialises in the treatment, removal and application of antique wall-coverings.

Anyway, I also have friends in the landed upper classes and they're the easiest when it comes to this thorny issue because they have no idea about what the class system is, how long its existed and why it's discussion might have the potential to cause offence. Frankly, they are too preoccupied with wondering why their James Grieve orchard had such a bad crop in the Autumn.

Generally, you can ascertain someone's class by working out who they hate:

Working class: hate everybody except builders.

Middle class: Will hate other middle class people for being so middle class. Won't admit to hating anyone else but will avoid sitting next to anyone reading The Star on the tube/bus.

Upper class: "Golly, don't think my family has hated anyone since the Hun. Though to be honest, I think Himmler may have been a distant blood relative."

lequeen same dichotomy here.

A city lawyer and a writer. DC at independent school. Dogs, chickens, ponies.

Yet we're both from sink estates.

What class are we I wonder?

And yes, OP, I must admit to never refering to myself as MC. Don't identify with that at all.

And we use the term as shorthand for boring and status conscious, though we have loads of MC mates who are not those things.

I went to private school dp went to military boarding school we own property outright but still don't feel middle class as I don't relate at all

Hmm...

I'm wearing Boden and Monsoon. I read the Indy. I went to uni. We have an organic veg box delivered and buy our organic meat at the farm shop. I listen to Radio 4.

Thank goodness I don't earn more than £100k and so am not really MC

sofaqueenie, traditionally your place in the British class system is determined by your father's occupation. So, if your father is a professional (doctor, lawyer, etc) then you are defined as middle class.

Lot of people think because they own their own home, own car and go overseas for their holidays, that this makes them middle class. It doesn't. It is impossible to transcend the class structure in the UK. However much money you earn, you will never make that leap onto the next tier.

It is all terribly outdated in my view. And no, I am not middle class.

"Having money is so not an indentifier of being truly middle class"

Definitely agree! It is a real bugbear of mine that so many people seem to see class as directly related to wealth. IMO it relates to values and attitudes rather than a figure on a bank statement.

Agreed.

We have more money than most of our MC friends, and have earned it from MC occupations. We even spend it on primarily MC things and save and invest prudently, in an MC stylee.

As one friend tells me, we are 'living the MC dream'

But my mindset will never be MC.
I don't share the same life view.
And I don't want to.

Well, I'd say my family is definitely working class, but we do eat courgettes.

Mind you, my brother did mistake some streaky bacon for Parma ham once, so I think we know where we belong....

POSH

ORDINARY PUNTERS

SCRUFF

I think that is a good way of classing people. Imo from the people i have met in my lifetime, posh = dull, scruff = i don't like their lack of morals and ordinary punters = most of the population and the ones who i get along with the most.

I like people who can enjoy a bit of banter and not get offended every 5 minutes over light hearted stuff.

Litchick, we must be the polar opposite of you. Most of my friends are the children of doctors/dentists/teachers/university lecturers/accountants/solicitors. We all went away to uni. All now seem to be infinitely poorer than our parents were! However all look and act MC without a doubt.

Jemima I see that a lot. MC friends and acquaintances who are not living as well as their parents.

Frankly they seem in shock. As if this is just not how it was meant to be.

The world has turned upside down and the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

All quite depressing and confusing for them.

I have a friend who is a rural GP and as MC as they come.
She is beyondlovely and I know she thinks the world of me.

But sometimes I catch her looking at me and I know she can't quite believe that my DC attend private school and she can't afford it for hers.

She doesn't begrudge me at all. But I know she feels the world is upside down.

LC

But my mindset will never be MC.
I don't share the same life view.
And I don't want to.

what life view/ mindset is that, pray tell?

there was an Article somewhere about a research group that found 43% of people to be MC, and about 40% to be WC - yet there was a significant minority that claimed to be WC when by any objective standard they weren't....(interestingly there was about 3% UC on lower than average inomes, jst goes to show)

are you using a 'Times journo' definition of mc?

the middle classes never have sent their kids to independent school, crowbarring your child into the best possible state school is more the MC way...

there was a good article by Caitlin Moran on this, but as its now a pay website, can't link to it..