To think that it's not a crime to be middle class?

[upsylazy]

I consider myself middle class (there, I've said it) and am a bit concerned at the current tendency to use it as a term of abuse eg "you're so middle class" with "white middle class" being a euphemism for a smug arsehole. I would definitely consider myself lower middle class, I don't live in a big house, have a cleaner or au pair and my DCs don't have stupid names. I am not heavily into organic food (too expensive) and have been known to go to (gasp) McDonalds. However, i still feel a twinge of guilt at being middle class. Hopefully, this is not a national phenomena but I have recently noted a trend among a small group of (upper) middle class women to ditch the Boden and Monsoon for Primark gear and start talking in a mock Saarrrff London accent. This seems to be taking things a step too far and is just inverted snobbery.

I have had it used pejoratively in a writing context. Continually hearing that "white, male, middle-aged, middle-class" voices are being heard too often. Well, sorry. What shall I do instead? Not write, as a sort of apology? Do another job?... The fact that there are a lot of us, of course (WMMAMCs) means that we have to be sure to make ourselves distinct to stand out from the crowd, and find something which we can be publicised for...

OP, you seem confused.

You do not want to be judged for being middle class, yet you are very judgy yourself !

Sooooo, my DC have "stupid" names (have been told they are poncy and "artistic" etc etc, but when people find out my ethnic origin (I look British but am not)they excuse it (thanks so much .

When I worked, I had a au-pair.

I have a cleaner.

big-ish house (semi, but still, it is big enough)

So do you have a problem with that OP, and if so, why?????!!!!

I think this thread is turning into the usual "I am more middle class than you" one

Liking Granny23's definitions!

Taking a guess here that courgettes are not typically bought by the working classes or the under classes.

Re the under class being an invention of Thatcher I refer you to the illustrations of William Hogarth in 1751 called Beer Street and Gin Lane.

At OldMumsy Towers we are so confused about what class we are we have given up caring (if indeed we ever did).

My sister cared very much and left home to live in a squat as we were all too boring and middle class for the dear thing. She achieved her dream and now lives in her part owned council house, although I reckon the ownership of even part makes her aspirational middle class hehehe.

how does this class stuff work if you are an immigrant?

just thinking quite a few immigrants might not know what a courgette is depending on the cuisine of their own country.....

Chandon Actually I am confused and don't really know what I am trying to say. I really don't want to start some sort of class war as I'm generally a peaceful person. I think what's making me angry at the moment is that my Dcs keep insinuating that we are poor and deprived. I live in a part of South london which has a general reputation for being a bit rough (although this is grossly exaggerated)but their school is in this little enclave of 4 storey 6 bed Victorian mansions. Nearly all their friends have huge houses and most of them have an entire basement with pool table etc for the DCs. My DCs now seem to have this idea that they are really hard done by. So I am angry that they are all so damn rich but I am saying that there's nothing wrong with being middle class. I think I'll get my coat.

UPSLAZY I enjoyed your original post.especially the fruity language

Yes, we have a class system. Which is loosely defined. When I was a kid most parents wanted their children to "get on" And
that may mean upping your class.

I get taken for middle class, which I am not in fincial terms. This is because I speak a bit posher than some contempries...
And can say James Blunt without ballsing it up.

Years ago some we knew said "We cant all have daughters with horned rimmed spectacles"

No cache in horn rimmed now .Its diamond studded cheers "Gabby"

but what do you think of courgettes Gabby?

GIYADS you have me in a corner over courgettes. I refuse to look it up

Is it a 1970s motor scooter? A posh mobile phone? Or a condom for unmarried couples?

If its food, I am on a diet cheers Gabby
exposed and ashmed

I think it is very important whatever level you are at to make your kids feel that normal is just one level up from them - otherwise we will never get the inflated upper salaaries that made this country so great.

The whole deal is based on unrealistic perceptions - witness my real life flaming last week when I pointed out that my friends are well into the top 5% of household income and how they felt that they couldn't possibly be considered rich because rich people lived in big houses in chelsea.. (sigh)

Will omeone please explain to me what middle class is?

Class as a notion is quite ridiculous in today's society as it's changing so much. It's not as simple as saying education, personal income/wealth, background etc makes you a particular 'class' anymore. Property prices spiralling and the spread of good quality education, in particular, have changed things.

I would have no idea where to classify myself by the traditional WC/MC/UC labels. I had a decidedly upper class education, lived a middle class lifestyle as a child, now have a professional career but live in a decidedly downtrodden area and have no assets/wealth to speak of.

I know no one in real life who ever describes themselves by class

i'm economy class

wouldn't it be good if being middle class was made illegal

I think class does still exist but the lines are so blurred, there are so many different ways to catergorise and so many different opinions on what constitutes a catergory.. The majority of people fall into round about the middle in the UK. For example we have a relatively low income but I wouldn't say we were working class yet my husband would say we are.

No Heroine!!!

I'm going to have to get medieval on your ass!!!

What the devil do you mean about courgettes? Can you confirm what other posters have speculated?

Middle class implies:

you know what one is
you buy and eat them regularly
or c) something else.

Just do it woman, Pandora's got nothing on me!!

And while I'm at it Porcamiseria

not in italy marnies mummy!!!!

What???
Have you mixed me up? That doesn't make sense to anything I've said/asked.

Look just tell me about the courgette thing and I'll be on my way!

Class me please. I am Scottish and we don't do that round 'ere.

Parents were Uni lecturer and civil servant.

Went to local comp after vehemently refusing to go to Public School

Live in 4 bed det house in nice area.

Have a degree, work in Public Sector, DH ditto.

Kids go to local comp.

Understand, grow and eat courgettes.

Totally left-wing.

I say working class.

nah sorry i reckon you're middle class katiescarlett the fact your parents (or at least one of them) is/are uni educated probably puts you into MC.

i'm never sure what to put on demographics questions about parent's education as both my parents went to further education 'college' and did quite vocational courses but in vocations which would nowadays require a degree.

so, am i the daughter of parents with a 'higher' education or not?

i'm working class, married UMC (sort of - foreign though so not technically UMC, just very rich) though live a middle class lifestyle. my kids are, I guess, MC, bcs of their lifestyle and education as they were growing up; but they were brought up by a working class mother, so they have imbibed some of the working class culture. I am working class and always will be, regardless of how educated I am, my job, or how much money I may have. class is about the culture you were brought up in, and class cultures in this country are distinct. most people are part of the vast and sprawling MCs. it gets on my nerves when people say they work so they are working class, probably bcs I'm slightly protective of my class. if you don't know what class you're in you're probably MC, bcs people at either end of the class system are fully aware of what class they belong to. if you say there is no such thing as class in this country (bcs everybody has a telly) you are very probably MC (or in denial), bcs the MCs are generally blind to and touchy about the class structure in this country and think (and say) that we're all MC. we aren't.

so if I got a job as a high-court judge I would still say I am working class, which would be alluding to my cultural heritage. an example of this would be that, if I were born, say, in Italy and had lived in britain for 20 years, I would still say I am italian (alluding to my cultural heritage), even if my kids had been brought up in britain and are british with no trace of an italian accent.

"understand, grow and eat courgettes" that's good enough for me, you can join my (wholly arbitrary and possibly too heavily vegetable oriented) middle class.