What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

i am a vaccine damaged person, i was lied to by the doctors and have spent 6 years suffering from skin and immune system problems due to the flu shot as well as getting the flu a week after i got the shot, btw i never had fl;u before or since , its education that is the key to why parents are not vaccinating, i havent vaccinated my child as i have spent years researching after my injury,
for instance, 89 children have DIED from the hpv vaccine in the USA alone with more than 20,000 adverse reactions being reported (source VAERS), the swine flu shot last year caused the misscariages of 3,500 unborn children, as well as cases of GBS and seizures in children
then theres the mortality rates that clearly show vaccines have never worked, all of the major diseaes we vaccinate against were either gone or well on there way out way before any vaccine was introduced (due to better health care, sanitation, nutrition etc! this data comes from many countries own official records. you cannot deny this data, its out there for all to see but most just believe there doctors (or as they have become, drug pushers, thats my own experience, no looking for the cause just treat the symptoms with dangerous drugs)
my child is now 2 healthier than most kids i know and her immune system is great, the few times she started to become ill she kicked it off within a few days were as most kids were getting ill for weeks!
the problem is the media attack anyone who questions vaccines with name calling, threats etc, even when we see parents all over the world screaming to get there voice heard as they are convinced there once happy normasl baby has been ruined by vaccines. in fact parents of injured children due to the HPV vaccine have set up a website to get there message accross. all we ask people to do is look at both sides of the story and make your own mind up
i have lived with what vaccines can do and seen the data and spent years looking at both sides to make sure i made the right choice, and i decided that injecting a young child with formaldahyde, aluminium, mercury, sorbitol 80, dead baby dna, is never going to be good for them, and based on the data that vaccines dont work as most people who get ill these days are the vaccinated (as all official statistics show)

vaccines done actually stop you getting the disease. To be honest Id be more worried a child walking around wiht the live virus in them from the vaccine than a child who didnt. There was one boy who lost both legs because of the vaccine. The live virus was in his nappy and was somehow into a cut causing the full blown disease. Obviously this is rare but most people dont understand they are injecting thier children with the virus to begin with.

Mamadiva: here's a link to the history of vaccination. It became readily available in UK in the 1920s (TB, diphtheria, whooping cough and tetanus).

sorry that post was supposed to say vaccines DONT stop you getting the disease.

Lilqueen: what you are describing is a known risk of the oral polio vaccine. It is no longer in use in UK (withdrawn 2004, replaced by injectable).

You can't really put all vaccines under one heading and have a sensible conversation.... some vaccines are newer than others and some have very very few reported reactions: others not so.

I thought I'd just say, my three teenagers have now had all the vaccines they are eligible for, except the girls' HPV jab. The elsdest two both had fits after the first Hib vaccine when they were little, but they did have the second one each when they were older - just a few years ago.

But my youngest had a reportable reaction to the HPV first jab - she had temporary paralysis (effects for 4 days), so not to be sneezed at - so obviously isnt having the other two and on that basis her 17 year old sister hasnt had that one either. BUT, recongising that all vaccines are different I did consent to her having the DPT this week which passed off without incident.

So you can't just assume that all vaccines are the same....

That's the one, onimolap.

I remember the concern from refuse collectors with regards to vaccine filled nappies years ago.

Reactions to vaccines are rare (when you look at the overall picture and not just rely on anecdotes). Of course unfortunately people very occasionally have serious reactions to vaccines but any medical intervention or medication carries a slight amount of risk. If you needed an operation to reduce the risk of getting seriously ill you might not worry about the slight risk of having a general anaesthetic.

Why would doctors encourage people to vaccinate if they thought it would make them ill? - that would only give them more work and cost the NHS more money . I really believe doctors only go into the profession to do the best for the health of their patients. They also regularly review what they do and research drugs and vaccines so that they can change the way they do things if they think there is too much of a risk.

This article is very interesting
here

I also like this one talking about Mbeki's denial of the link between HIV and AIDS
here

Shows what happens when people who refuse to accept scientific inquiry actually make policy! Thankfully the anti-vax brigade with their conspiracy theories, false heroes and cherry picked evidence are not in that position here.

^riven* I second that lol about peer review.

I am a peer reviewer for one medical punblication lol

Staying out of the fight about vaccinations because I have quite strong opinions on this after waching someone die of a disease that is vaccinated against but I have a question.

Does anyone know if a child who has not been vaccinated who later decides as an adult they wish they had can still get the relevant vaccinations?
A friend at uni was not vaccinated at all and over the summer was very ill and almost died (with something that is vaccinated against). She is still suffering the effects from this and TBH at the moment is quite resentful of her parents for not getting her vaccinated. I'm sure she will make up with her parents soon but I don't know whether she can have the vaccinations done now (she is going to ask the doctor at the next check up) or if once the parents have decided no you can't have them done on the NHS. Just curious about that really.

*watching

musicmadness - Depends what the disease in question was but I would imagine now that she has had it she will have immunity. Not sure because I am not an expert but as long as she now has a healthy immune system I can see no reason why not. Probably best if she discusses this with her GP.

You can get a catch up programme for most - but pertussis is not currently licensed for adults in UK (this is under discussion as there are cases amongst those who did not get the jab following the 1970s scare).

FlipFlop - thanks. She is going to discuss with the GP but I was just curious in general. Not for the disease she has had but she was never vaccinated at all so she is wondering about the others which she might not be immune to.

This thread is pointless.

Vaccination as a discipline has hundreds of years of development and research around it. It is single handedly responsible for the massive reduction in infant mortality in the developed world.

Vaccination works, is safe and is A Good Thing. This has been proven time and time again. There are countless articles, research papers demonstrating this time and time again. It is incredibly well understood and researched.

These idiotic anti vaccination morons are similar to those who would have us believe in a six day creation or a flat earth and with about as much reasoning or evidence behind them.

They rely on dodgy, unreferenced websites with fabricated or misrepresented data. They play on the fears and concerns of the ignorant.

The simple fact is vaccination works. There is no evidence to the contrary. None what so ever - which is why all we get is these bull shit websites and their dodgy information and conspiracy theories.

The only difference between these people and those who would have you believe a flat earth is that the flat earther isn't likely to end up killing someone.

YANBU to want to vaccinate your children if that is what you consider to be the best thing for your children. You are their parents and it is your choice how best to raise them and protect them.

YABU to be so judgmental about people with different beliefs and ideas about the world than you and to dismiss their views as opinions as 'woo'. Calling some-one complete quack, and implying their choice of crystal heaing is somehow to be laughed at is a bit pathetic.

I know a few people into crystal healing and they swear it works, and put their whole being into it. While I would not rely on this alone to govern my and my children's health I would never be so dismissive about their lifestyle and beliefs and in turn the entire community of people who beleive in this.

If you want to do it, do it, if not then don't.

yeah, thanks, LooktoWindward.

maybe you'd like to come round here nd tell my dd1 just how much vaccination is A Good Thing?

maybe when you are doing all of her personal care? or when you are preparing her food (special diet)? or when you are changing her nappy (she's nearly 7)

I'm sure she'd agree with you.

I'm sure she's really happy with the Good Thing that was done to her, which has result in her needing supervision and care around the clock, means she cannot access mainstream education, and has left her ill.

Leonie there are always questions over whether what doctors do is the right thing or not. This is what medical research is for and why healthcare practice changes periodically in the light of new evidence. No intervention is a sacred cow. There are always questions when no one really knows the answer and thats what research is for. Healthcare experts are always disagreeing with each other constantly - believe me!

"maybe you'd like to come round here nd tell my dd1 just how much vaccination is A Good Thing?"

I've a good friend with a severe allergy to penicillin.

Obviously that means antibiotics are a terrible thing and will kill us all.

...just pojting out that nothing is as simple, or black and white as you are suggesting.

vaccination is not a good thing for everyone, and just because someone thinks it is not a good thing, does not mean they are a quack, a fake, a fraud, into woo, or any other claim you would like to make about them.

trying to bulldoze an argumant with "it is a good thing, end of. just accept that" is no way to make a point, tbh.

grrr autocorrect. "just pointing out..." (and doubtless other typos too)

Exactly pavlocat things like the belief in crystal balls and those who are anti-vax (not for their individual children as I'm not in a position to determine the clinical history of any one person based on what they say here) are a belief system - it's a religion for all intents and purposes and certainly not based on evidence and scientific inquiry.

That's why all the arguments on threads like this are circular. It's almost like arguing about the existence of God.