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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

1002 replies

poshsinglemum · 16/01/2011 08:31

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

OP posts:

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:06

And the long term, chronic effects of vaccinations? Not a problem?

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:07

Yeah, I demolished some of them, but you can't cope with that.

Yes, I know what evidence is. It seems you don't.

Answer my question, by the way.

differentnameforthis · 19/01/2011 00:08

I've read some of it. You haven't presented anything here that I wasn't already aware of, and haven't already debated with a couple of friends, who are anti vaccination.

But as I said, it is your delivery. They didn't feel the need to attack my stance on pro vaccination, like you are doing so here.

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:08

Really different? So you knew about all the flaws in those studies.

Sure you did. Sure you did.

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:09

Excuse me and diddums. Under attack? Have you been accused of lying, of murder?

LookToWindward · 19/01/2011 00:10

Demolished them where? All I've seen is some - frankly rambling and barely coherent posts by someone who sounds more than a little deluded.

Show me some evidence. Show me the references, the peer reviewed research that support your claims.

Are you drunk? Is that it?

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:13

Go on then. Copy and paste my assessments of those studies and undermine them.

Another accusation to add to the list. Drunkenness. You are reduced to this?

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:15

And by the way -- answer my question. You think those thousands upon thousands of parents are all lying or stupid?

Are you afraid to say it?

Catkinsthecatinthehat · 19/01/2011 00:16

I'd not heard the asthma / measles link. Yes I accept that one condition can alleviate another as I know that sickle cell anemia can also protect against malaria, for example. I have a friend whose two kids have SCA and it's a horrible, debilitating, painful chronic condition. In the UK malaria's not a risk and they can protect against on holiday through prophylactics so for the chronic effects of SCA are far worse than the potential deadly risk of malaria. Although measles carries the risk of death, the big problem is the non-fatal side effects it can cause which affect larger numbers.

differentnameforthis · 19/01/2011 00:16

Sure you did. Sure you did.

And you've all got nothing to say because there is nothing to say. Bang to rights

That's not aggressive?

Because no one is falling at your feet saying 'wow, you are so right', you attack! You can't hold reasoned debate without having to get in the faces of those you are 'talking' to.

And yes, others have too but you have stood out, it is in all your posts.

And yes, I have been called a murderer, because I choose to terminate a pregnancy. You know what, I am not, so it rolls off my back! I don't feel the need to jump up & down & stamp my feet about it. Because it isn't true!

I am not arguing the case over my/your opinions on vaccination, because I am happy with where I stand on that. Just that your 'point' may be a bit better digested if you didn't attack & get on your high horse so much.

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:21

Cat, it's nice to read a reasoned post. There's been a big rise in asthma in Africa since measles vacc was introduced. I would counter your long term side effects, which I accept are not to be minimised, by saying that asthma is a long-term, chronic illness: that vaccinations have long-term, chronic side effects; and that vitamin A is known to minimalise the morbidity as well as mortality of measles, which is why they give it out in biscuits in developing countries.

You know what different, nobody has bothered to respond to what I've written, in the way that Heathen and Mito did, and cat to a certain extent. I suppose I was a bit rude to mito. So all this "style" attacking -- basically it's just to avoid assessing the facts/studies/evidenc, whatever.

differentnameforthis · 19/01/2011 00:21

And by the way -- answer my question. You think those thousands upon thousands of parents are all lying or stupid?

I never said, nor implied that. My posts here have been in response to your attitude, not your views on vaccination. I also think that others have been over aggressive in their delivery & with the name calling, but you are the one who feels that just because no one has said anything you have them 'bang to rights'

And you've all got nothing to say because there is nothing to say. Bang to rights

Arrogant.

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:23

Different, so you don't think they're all lying or stupid? You think some of them right?

Hallelujah.

differentnameforthis · 19/01/2011 00:24

You know what different, nobody has bothered to respond to what I've written

You have had plenty of response. You just don't want to see it because it doesn't agree with what you are saying. Doesn't mean it isn't a response. It's just not the one you want.

That also doesn't mean people are 'bang to rights'!

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:24

tbh different the question is really directed at windward, whose position is so extreme it's astonishing. But thanks for your reply.

LookToWindward · 19/01/2011 00:26

I'm not going to cut and paste anything because I don't care what you've posted. If it had any value it would be published. I don't care what unreferenced, badly written junk some idiot posts on the internet.

What I am interested in is work that is at a high enough standard to be published, having been reviewed by the authors peers. You have after so much asking absolutely failed to provide this. As I keep saying, you have nothing - other than an woefully misguided sense of your own worth and an overtly aggressive posting style. No substance.

And again, anecdote is not evidence.

I also think you might be drunk as you're coming across as barely coherent and more than a touch hysterical.

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:26

No, not to all those assessments of the studies that cat posted. Except from windward, who said I was drunk, which is pathetic hardly a cogent refutation.

differentnameforthis · 19/01/2011 00:27

Different, so you don't think they're all lying or stupid?

Really, you got that form my post? Because I never said that!

differentnameforthis · 19/01/2011 00:27

tbh different the question is really directed at windward, whose position is so extreme it's astonishing. But thanks for your reply

Fair enough!

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:29

Windward you are ridiculous!

Anecdote is not evidence? How about clinical records? Reported reactions? Consultants' assessments?

Are you trying to cover for your failure of response by insulting me?

Excuse me if I fail to give a shit.

Cat and different, goodnight. Thanks for your responses.

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:31

Sorry different just to come back quickly -- so you do think they're all lying or stupid?

I got it from your post because you said you'd never said that. So I took it that you disagreed. But you don't? You think they ARE all lying or stupid?

Appletrees · 19/01/2011 00:32

And Windward: you simply won't answer at all. Tough one isn't it?

Have posted all this tonight because I don't think I'll be back tomorrow. That's why I've gone on and on.

Catkinsthecatinthehat · 19/01/2011 00:33

Appletrees, asthma may have increased in Africa, but is that vaccination, or big changes in living standards (ie more enclosed, germ reduced, dust-free homes, a correlation noted in the West?). If vaccination has indeed vastly reduced deaths and disability from measles, is a mostly manageable condition like asthma a good trade off (and I know how horrible asthma is and how brutal that sounds).

I certainly don't think parents who believe in the MMR/autism link are lying, and also don't think they're stupid. I think the current weight of scientific evidence is against their conclusions.

differentnameforthis · 19/01/2011 00:36

For your peace of mind, apple....

I have a friend who is anti vaccination. The only thing I would accuse her of being stupid for is exposing babies/toddlers & older children to whopping cough when her children had it (and continued to go to childcare/school) & didn't get them seen/treated for 6 weeks.

This, after a letter home from school that a child in her daughter's class had it

After a positive diagnosis from her GP that her dh had it

So it was in her family & she did nothing. yet when I suspected dd1 had it, I took both girls for swabs that same day & kept them quarantined.

They are no more stupid, and no more a liar than I am, who believes that vaccinations have their place & are the best course of treatment for my children.

LookToWindward · 19/01/2011 00:37

I don't think anyone is lying or that anyone is stupid. I just think they're wrong.

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