What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

Still waiting.....

Show me some evidence.

I'll just counter your dismissal of the Denmark study, appletrees, if I may? Cause it's always seemed pretty definitve to me.

Your criticism that the study is incomplete does not make it 'worthless'; if they have followed even one year's cohort through and seen no difference in autism rates between vaccinated and non-vaccinated kids; then either there is no effect, or the effect is too small to be observed in this number of cases. And it was a big study.

I agree with Peachy, mostly, it seems. And Cote D'Azur; the more we reduce the levels of diseases through vaccination, the less benefit there is in vaccinating any one child so vaccination rates drop... disease levels rise... rinse and repeat.

See the thing is, you're just saying, oh that's shite. Now i could have easily said about those studies, oh they're shite. It would have saved time for sure. But instead i took the trouble to explain to you why the usual references used by people like you as proof are, in fact, shite. Now the ONLY reason you don't respond in the same way to me and leonie is because you can't.

The Vaccine Damage Payment is a scheme by the government to attempt to boost the uptake of the MMR in the UK due to the damage that Wakefield did.

I'm not sure what that demonstrates other than sometimes drugs can sometimes have serious side affects.

I just wish they did one for "penicillin damage."

Is that it? Is that the best you can do? Is that your best shot at evidence of showing a link between (for example) MMR and ASD?

Show me some evidence.

Heathen; hi. There is a three-year gap between the end of the study and age of diagnosis. There is a large cohort of vaccinated children included who have not achieved the age of diagnosis.

"Now i could have easily said about those studies, oh they're shite."

But the difference is that those studies aren't some unreferenced bilge like your posts. They have been (and it sounds like a cliche at this point but its important) publicly published and peer reviewed. They contain references and are open for people to respond to them.

So if they're shite then crack on. I look forward to seeing your name in them.

Show me some evidence.

So, let's be clear. You believe there is no such thing as vaccine damage?

Vaccine Damage Payments Act was introduced in the late 70s - way before MMR and Wakefield.

I've found the BMJ article for the Finland study. It follows 1.8 million children. Not sure where you get the 31 from?

(just out of interest, how large was the sample in Wakefield's original MMR study?)

"So, let's be clear. You believe there is no such thing as vaccine damage?"

I accept (it isn't a question of belief - well not to me anyway) that like all drugs, a vaccination can very rarely cause a severe reaction in recipients leading to serious disability. Just like penicillin (for example).

I do not accept that there is any kind of casual link between vaccination as a treatment and (for example) ASD or that such a thing as "vaccine overload" exists or that we're poisoning our youth with aluminium or mercury or any of the other tripe that regularly gets posted about.

Ref UK fund - yes the scheme does pre-date Wakefield but I'd argue that's profile is only really apparent since the Wakefield debacle and the vast bulk of the money paid out in its life time has been since Wakefield (3.5m to around 500 cases - that might be wrong. How many people have suffered a life changing adverse reaction to penicillin in the same time? A lot more). Certainly its primary function is to try to keep up the vaccination rates.

Oh, and show me the evidence.

"I do not accept that there is any kind of casual link between vaccination as a treatment and (for example) ASD or that such a thing as "vaccine overload" exists or that we're poisoning our youth with aluminium or mercury or any of the other tripe that regularly gets posted about."

And just to follow this. The reason why I do not accept the above as there is no evidence to support it.

28 pages of distraction only prove that.

They didn't follow-up up every child. Only 31.

There is a lot of evidente. The legal aid board thought so, for one. And every single one of the thousands of parents who claim an mmr regresión is lying? Be clear on this. You must believe that every single one , and there are thousands, is lying?

There is a lot of evidente

Well show me that evidence.

You must believe that every single doctor who agrees with them is lying, every single co.nultant and immunologist. Be very clear. You must believe silver and leonie are lying, you must for the sake of your position.

You must believe these.things though you have never seen the children or their médicas records, or met the parents. Is this what you believe?

"They didn't follow-up up every child. Only 31."

Link please? I can't find any evidence of this from looking at the BMJ report.

Answer my question. Do you believe this?

I believe the Finnish study covered 3 million not 1.8m. Of the 3m, 31 children developed gastrointestinal symptoms within 24 hours of the MMR and were tracked for the next decade.
None developed autism. (it's Peltola et al. 1998. Lancet; 351)

I haven't voy a link. I subscribed. It is there, you need to look at the table.

Thanks cat.

Actually there was a Finnish study of 1.8m who'd received the MMR covered in the Paediatric Infectious Disease Journal, edition 19, in the year 2000;. It found that the risk of serious adverse events attributable to the vaccine was only 3.2 per million vaccine doses. It also noted that there was no increase in the rates of autism or bowel disease amongst those vaccinated.