... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

Litchick. I honestly couldn't agree with you more

jenai in my experience, the people, like Xenia, who have been working and earning well for long periods are very flexible.

They tend to move and morph with trends.

So it's not about making a lucky choice twenty years ago imho.

i see tis is a LOOONg thread and I don't have time now to read it all.
I do want to say, as I'm sure others have, that YABU to say MOST Mners live in a bubble .
But YANBU to feel frustrated.

I am a low earner, my family is not well off.

But earning a lot of money doesn't insulate you against some things which make life uber hard - domestic abuse, mental health, physical illnesses, problems with your children, etc etc. Any of these life experiences can burst your 'bubble' as you put it. And no amount of money can automatically fix these things.

JenaiMarr - You may be right. I was also thinking that it is often a team effort and nobody's talent is unique enough to make them worth a lot in their own right. That said, I have no real idea of how scientific research is conducted - is it ever conducted by one person alone?

Litchick, I think they have a point though. What's achievable on a middle-ish income seems a bit rubbish these days, compared to 30 years ago.

One would hope they'd appreciate that they are better off than many others right now - but they're not better off than their parents were.

joni if I hear another bloody editor bemoaning the fact that they can't afford private schooling, I think I will spontaneously combust.

I mean, check out the average earnings of an editor, then look at the price of school fees. I aint rocket science.

Publishing is bad for salary. First job, I left after a year due to impossible London salary!

The difference between re pay relating to different sectors has become bigger over last 20 years hasn't it?

So people made choices based on different information way back when...

Ours is a bit higher but only through disability income- clearly I would not choose to have that and it's all restricted for disability use anyway. And spent ten times over!.

We've been on an income of £40k plus and unless you lived in London I can;t see how it would nto suffice (having never lived in London I won;t judge about there). It was more than fine for us as a family of 6.

OTOH we have also lost a house in the past and may again, always very close- not through non-payment but other stuff.

Mind, if you are on £70k and loaned up to the eyeballs you ARE stuffed if your income drops but you amde those choices in teh first palce.

jenai you're right of course. The same sorts of careers and their attached incomes do not push to large homes in leafy postcodes and private schools fees.

But this is no shock.
House prices have been horrendous in the SE for years.

I think part of it comes form us not being honest with our children. We tell them to do exactly what they want in life.
We tell them that happiness is key.

But we should also tell them that chosing x job comes with certain limitations.

But surely people don't try and stay in the same job or even industry for 20 years ? Nobody I know has done that aside of medics.
I started in IT, worked in business, the NHS but have an English degree.
DH is a chemist, went into pharma, has a MBA and now is a business consultant. His partner is a lawyer now working in business.

'

Things change (comparatively). I have some barrister friends who are feeling a bit rubbish with new changes.

A law degree from Oxford a good bet by all accounts.

I will be MUCH more upfront with my children re expected salary.

Mamatomany - I think that is just it - some people do stay in the same industry for life and don't take risks and change.

I think we are saying that the key to success is to keep your eye on trends and move with the time to maximise your income by using your skills and talents in the best possible way? The flexibility that Litchick talks about.

I think that involves an element of risk taking. You could stay in the same job for life and plod along on a decent salary or you could watch what is going on in the world, keep flexible and take the risk of doing something slightly different.

My BIL was a graphic designer. He could probably still do that job and make a decent income. Instead he developed his skills and is now a web designer with more earning potential. Some people are prepared to move on some they prefer to stick with what they know and end up maybe not earning as much as they could.

Litchick - I couldn't agree more wrt being flexible, but there are limits to that.

I could be a bricklayer now, or a consultant cardiologist, or a computer programmer, and see that there's a gap in the market for specialists in a particular area of law. But it wouldn't do me much good if I'd not studied law in the first place.

Whinging about school fees is pretty irritating though, granted

And sometimes people stay in the same profession because they love it. An architect eg. Bit of a pain to become something uninspiring (to them) in the finance sector just for the £

Better to forge upwards with the talents one has imo

Not everyone can get a law degree from oxford though: if tehy could it wouldn;t be such a good bet after all

Mn needs t accept relaity: there is a limit to how many people can earn £'s, some people don;t nevcessarily ahve the ability, or had access to teh required education, or whatever; some do but there simply are not enough jobs or somesuch (I;ve been salving for eyars to apply for a social work MA in 2012 only for a % of funding to be puller placing me back at step one AGAIN- originally it was teaching but the course moved 100 miles away typcially!). C'est la vie, good luck makes me nervous anyway these days.

People are nto equal: they all have equal value (generalisation but YKWIM) but they are not equal in the big income race.

I encourage the boys to look only at carrers that will offer security: but I don't point them at high income levels, you need a certain drive for that. I know an Oxford Barrister who hated her job anyway, that matters too (she's a Law lecturer now, probably still Oxford).

DS1 has the drive and a specific talent to earn despite his asd and could well end up with £'s; ds2 has a big ehart a a desire to work in a vocation, and whilst I try to encourage him to qualify up foirst and maxmise options, I doubt he will be rich but suspect he'd have a bigger focus on family etc than ds1 by his nature.

As long as they can pay the rent who cares?

I agree with the need to be flexible.

I am an aeronautical engineer by profession. I loved it and was in a lovely geeky bubble.

However, to earn more money you have to move into management, and move away from front line design work. I eventually became a procurement professional, then changed industry from aerospace to automotive - automotive is far better paid but not as interesting - and now work on Outsourcing, so a million miles away from designing aircraft parts.

I could have stayed as a design engineer but it would have been less paid than what i am doing now.

From the opening statement:
"Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite)..."

One simply must clarify that with 70K parental income, little Jacob is out of luck in regards to polo lessons. Like not gona happen, sista. Like ever.
Little Jacob would need 70K personal polo allowance you see. Just to start the said little Jacob off.

Nonsensical and whimsical issues aside, I fail to understand why it is a crime to earn a decent living?

It's simply numbing to see the never ending stream of vitriol weekly threads on the subject of the evil of the middle classes/high earners/public shools/etc ad nauseam.

Why can't so many just live and let live as we all do the best we can for our families. Personal choices and all that.

I wish more girls were encouraged to be entreprenuers when they leave their education. They could use the first years, when they have relatively few responsibilities, to put in the stupid hours and take risks which could lead to sucessful businesses in the long run.

And I know myself enough to know that I haven't the brains or energy to be a city lawyer.

I also know of several Oxbridge grads who became barristers who have spectacularly failed to make it.
Early success doesn't always lead to future success.

JenaiMarr - that is where the risk comes in (sorry for banging on about risk). You could see the gap in the market and take a chance by training to become a lawyer on the basis that in the short term things would be tough but in the long term you would be much better off.

Of course this all presupposes your driving force is money. I am sitting here thinking, like Peachy, about what am I going to do with my qualifications (you seem to have a plan Peachy which I don't). I have just finished an MSc. I suppose if I wanted to I could find a way of earning a lot of money from it but it wouldn't necessarily result in the kind of lifestyle I want. Some of us earn a lot of money but do I want to make the sacrifices in my lifestyle to be the same? No I don't.

My daughter has a god given talent for Art, she is years a head of her peers in techique, imagination and natural ability.
I have a discussion with her most weeks about keeping up the rest of her studies because at the age of 10 she is convinced she is going to be an artist and I have to say look around you at your home, school, lifestyle it costs money so you'll have to train as something else too, do your art at the weekends and evenings and hope you get your break sooner rather than later but it won't be all you do with your life.
She looks at me like I'm mad and says but i'll live with you mum (and bring my DP and children with me )

DD has got a real talent for cooking - owever that is the last profession I would want her to enter. Thankfully she is engineering minded like her mother so hopefully she will go down that route.