in thinking breastfeeding might be a bit counterproductive if...

[woahthere]

you smoke 40 a day and drink alcohol. I breastfed myself and am very pro breastfeeding, but even I worry about what is going into her baby if she still smokes so much, not to mention the increased risk of cot death. She gives formula if she is planning a heavy night out but she often has unplanned heavy nights. Her baby is actually almost 2 and there is part of me that is very proud of her but another part of me cant help but think, 'what is the point' when what you are feeding could potentially be toxic. Had she not been smoking and drinking I would have thought it was great.

your name is spot on

Breastfeeding doesn't automatically make anyone a better mother. Not sure of the point of the post.

I'm under the impression that breastfeeding is especially beneficial for children of smoking mothers. Am I wrong?

Alcohol: the milk contains a dose of only about 3% of what mother has, and at the age of 2yo how much milk is the child still drinking? It's not as bad as getting plastered and still feeding a newborn, iyswim. How heavy a night out does she have, and how often? And how can you be so sure of the facts?

I think the Op's point is that if you are a heavy drinker and smoker, the toxins that you are passing to your baby may mean that you would be better giving them formula(or cows milk given that the child is 2)

I dont know the science on this one I must admit. I know that the evidence on alcohol and how much "gets through" is woolly.

If the baby's two, presumably she's not feeding in the night, so the mum's alcohol levels have probably dropped by the time the child's having a morning feed.

'I breastfed myself '

really? that must have been difficult. I don't know any women who have managed that.

I think alcohol is probably all right, as the concentration in the breastmilk is not high, presumably 2 yo doesn't feed round the clock so the levels would drop off anyway before morning and also 2 yo's liver can process it much more easily than a newborn's.

It's better to smoke and bf than smoke and ff, but from what I read it seems that once you smoke over 20 a day the risks get bigger. 2 packets a day is a lot.

ha ha belgo

but she wouldnt need to formula feed now anyway would she? It wasnt a bf vs ff question. Would it be better at this point to just cut out the breastfeeding altogether (genuine question, not making a statement)
ragged...why is it especially beneficial, do you mean because if she didnt breastfeed then the toxins would be MORE harmful because breastmilk protects you more.
Not sure of the point of your post either chil...I didnt say anywhere that it did make you a better mother?!

YABU - Personally I think the woman deserves a medal. If she's breastfeeding - how the fuck does she find the time & energy to smoke 40 tabs a day and get shit-faced? I admire her. We need more women like her and a few less po-faced cows sitting in organic cafe wearing home-knitted kemp man-cardies. There, I've said it!

so do the toxins not go in your bloodstream then get passed through the breastmilk then as opposed to the toxins around the woman. so a double whammy so to speak.
She still feeds a lot, baby is a snacker! Can i reiterate that its not about formula.
alpinepony made me laugh, but im hoping she doesnt mean it!

Of course, I understand that altinkum, especially when they are young babies, but do you think it would be best when they are a bit older, if you want to drink a lot and smoke a lot, to perhaps knock it on the head, or feed a bit less so there is more time to allow between fag breaks. I have literally seen her standing in her kitchen smoking whilst knelt down breastfeeding at the same time. Call me judgemental if you like but that just makes me go eurgh. Ive also been with her having a drink, shes been completely pissed and then the baby has started crying and shes wobbled upstairs and fed the baby...sorry, but I think its horrible.

I don't think you will get a straight answer here because ther ehave benn so many breast feeding threads this week.

Is this person a famly member or a close friend? If they are next time you are at your GP ask them because they will be able to give you a proper answer and if you are right you will have the info to hand to mention it to your friend. You might find that she is still is doing the best thing so find out all the facts before you say anything

thank you evildead, yes she is a close friend (a close friend but i also think she is quite weird sometimes!) I wouldnt say anything, I dont really think its my place to have 'serious' word. I do occasionally say..'bloody, hell mate what you doing, but not in a pursuable make an issue of it kind of way.

I don't know how many of the chemicals in cigarettes pass through to breastmilk, but it seems to me that the real issue isn't the breastfeeding. It's that she smokes directly next to the toddler. And that will be a issue, whether she is breastfeeding, cuddling her child, giving a beaker of cows' milk, or whatever.

So, I'd be far more concerned about the smoke the toddler is directly breathing in, than what the toddler might be getting after the cigarette's been filtered through the woman's body.

but no, as with many, many other people in our society, you're picking on the breastmilk.

However, at least you're questioning the viewpoint and investigating it on mumsnet first.

So kudos for thinking about a popular belief. I certainly blindly accept things far too much. Hey, maybe I'm even doing it now!

Ah, you didn't say in your OP that she smokes around the child. No, that is, of course, a big no no- but breastfeeding doesn't have anything to do with it. She shouldn't be smoking in the house, or at least smoke in the kitchen/room where the child doesn't go into with the window open.

But bf will still be beneficial to the child as she will be getting antibodies etc. I think you would have to ask a doctor about whether the benefits outweigh the risks- although I suppose you would get different answers depending on the doctor. 40 is really a lot- there's no time for the nicotine and other nasties's levels to go down- although iirc not much nicotine is absorbed by a child's digestive system.

YABU. Whatever her lifestyle choices, breastmilk is still nutritionally superior for human infants than the available alternatives of formula or cows milk

I would say that the smoking and drinking are a problem - not that the BFing is!

If she is 'literally... standing in her kitchen smoking whilst knelt down breastfeeding at the same time' (contortionist?) then surely if she wasn't BFing her DS would be there in the smoky environment anyway - just playing instead of feeding?

I personally can't bear people smoking over babies/children and if she is a good friend I would suggest that you should ask her about if she has any plans to cut down. But then again I wouldn't be in the house of someone who smokes 40 pd - it must stink! :(

Smoking whilst breastfeeding is better than smoking and not breastfeeding (says Kellymom), at least for babies. I don't know about toddlers/small children.

I think breastfeeding or not at same time is a bit of a side issue; this child sounds very exposed to heavy smoking and heavy drinking. That's not ideal, whether or not milk is involved.

I doubt that breastfeeding is an issue.

Smoking around her child is a problem, but worse for the child if she smoke around him and gives him cows milk than smokes around him and breastfeeds.

Agree with posters above. If she's smoking and drinking heavily around a 2 year old on a regular basis then I don't see how the situation would be improved by her giving cows milk instead.