in thinking breastfeeding might be a bit counterproductive if...

[woahthere]

you smoke 40 a day and drink alcohol. I breastfed myself and am very pro breastfeeding, but even I worry about what is going into her baby if she still smokes so much, not to mention the increased risk of cot death. She gives formula if she is planning a heavy night out but she often has unplanned heavy nights. Her baby is actually almost 2 and there is part of me that is very proud of her but another part of me cant help but think, 'what is the point' when what you are feeding could potentially be toxic. Had she not been smoking and drinking I would have thought it was great.

i just thought the toxins might go through to the milk thats all, im quite surprised that noone think its an issue, i dont know, i suppose im a bit undecided on it too, I just think, if you give a shit enough to want to breastfeed for 2 years, why not at least cut down on the smoking, do it outside so there is less chance of it getting to baby. She wouldnt need to give cows milk instead, she could give goats milk, milk isnt the be all and end all. I suppose the reaction to my post is massively influenced by all the other breastfeeding threads there have been though, in a negative way.

I doubt much gets into the milk though - smoking and drinking around a toddler is the problem, breastfeeding is the least of it.

ok, seems the general consensus is that its not a problem...i shall go on quietly loathing it to myself!

Everyone agreed smoking 40 a day round your baby is a problem!

I would loathe seeing it, too :(.

Cow's (or goat's) milk have toxins in them. All the stuff in our shared air and water, all the pesticides that went into the grain they eat, whatever the muck got mixed up with before thrown on the field to grow the hay, fungicides and rat-killer chemicals to prevent grain from rotting in silos, etc.

My mother was a heavy smoker (all thru pregnancy, too) and drinker. & to be honest I am fine, too, very robust immune system, few health issues, not a smoker or heavy drinker myself (ever). People really were a lot more ignorant about those risks 40 years ago, though. They should know better, now.

"i just thought the toxins might go through to the milk thats all"

They might. But it would be in much smaller quantities than is in the actual smoke.

When your friend smokes, she breathes in the chemicals that are in tobacco smoke, directly into her lungs. Then it will go into her blood-stream. Eventually, some chemicals may well end up, in comparatively low concentrations, in the breast-milk.

Meanwhile, the toddler has been breathing in tobacco smoke, where those chemicals are at far higher concentrations than they will be in the breast milk.

Substituting another kind of milk won't really do anything beneficial for the child's health, while she's still living in a fug of tobacco. It'd be like spending hours on your hands and knees, scrubbing at a stubborn tomato stain on the carpet, while the roof blew off.

OP - I think we are all agreeing with you that the smoking and drinking are a problem but you seem to be focusing on the breast feeding aspect? If the main issue is that your friend should go outside to smoke what has that got to do with breastfeeding?

Maybe she breastfeeds because she (gasp) enjoys it rather than because of the health benefits!

I think that's a bit unfair to the OP. I think the genuine question was the degree to which toxins in alcohol and cigarette smoke pass through breast milk into the child. I think that's a fair question.

However, I agree that the smoking around the child is probably more of a problem

......and for those who had chain smoking parents and turned out fine, my grandad smoked till he was ninety but the plural of anecdote is not data. Living in a smoky environment is bad for you and makes you more likely to develop a whole host of conditions you'd probably rather not have. I think the data is pretty clear on that.

Why would you be surprised that people manage to sucessfully breastfeed just because you dont know any1 who has? :S

I dont think someone should be breastfeeding whilst smoking & drinking. i dont see why a 2 year old needs to be breastfed anyways x

Two year olds drink milk don't they Teenytiny?

Yes but i dont see why a two year old needs to be breastfed. just like i dont see why a two year old needs to be ff

"I have literally seen her standing in her kitchen smoking whilst knelt down breastfeeding at the same time"

Really? Wow.

Just tell me one thing... how?

Why give a 2 year old milk at all if they don't need it?

Smoking and breastfeeding have fewer negative side effects on a baby than smoking and ffing. A minuscule amt of alcohol passes into bm even after a heavy session. No one ought to be in charge of a baby after too much alcohol irrespective of feeding method.

YABU

Vallhala.... I've never smoked simultaneous to breastfeeding (I do smoke and breastfed all three but only smoke 3/4 a day away from the kids, either outside or locked in the utility room) but i have on many occasions knelt whilst feeding a toddler and bathing other kids, doing homework, folding clothes, etc.

It depends on the baby... ds1 for instance was far better at it than ds2 (due to size i think, ds2 is petite whereas ds1 was always tall) and I think having boobs that have been through the wars with three ravenous feeders probably helps as your desensitised to them being stretched and yanked at.

teeny... if you agree a 2 year old needs milk can you explain to me why you believe milk from another mammal is more appropriate than milk from its own mother?

valhalla, baby (well toddler really) standing up while Mum knelt down feeding.
foxytocin, in response, lets not make it a bf vs ff thread, as it is not. I have been a bit unfair actually and given hte wrong impression, she doesnt always smoke in the house and the time he was in the kitchen the patio door was open. still gross though. Out of interest, how many people that posted I am unreasonable are smokers themselves?

Ok, if you say so.

Smoking and breastfeeding have fewer negative side effects on a baby or toddler than smoking and not breastfeeding, eg giving only cow's milk.

A minuscule amt of alcohol passes into bm even after a heavy session. No one ought to be in charge of a baby after too much alcohol irrespective of whether a child is breastfed.

I don't and have never smoked.

The breastfeeding angle just seems a bit irrelevant though?

I'm not a smoker, and think smoking around children is disgusting.

Passive smoking would be the thing to worry about for the baby. Alcohol - would depend on the amount but health risk to the mother.

I didnt think it was irrelevant sorry, or I wouldnt have asked

YANBU.

Also, I wonder if a mother has a really crappy diet, surely her milk would be crappy too?

No BodyOfEeyore, doesn't work that way.

But how? Surely you need to have goodness going into the mother's body in order to have goodness in the milk?