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Original poster

To be shocked 90% of Down's babies are aborted?

575 replies

Strictly · 14/01/2011 09:20

I was jut reading this sorry, yes it's from the DM!

and then did a little Googling and it turns out 91% of people told their baby has DS will have an abortion... Shock

I'm just astounded it's so high. I'm not making a judgment on the idea people might abort, but am very shocked that it seems almost universal to abort if told the baby has Down's.

I wonder what it is about that particular condition that 91% of people feel they could not live with? The rates for abortions of Cerebral Palsy babies for example is nowhere near as high. Is it just that Down's is easy to detect so the majority of people actually get the chance to decide?

OP posts:
seeker · 14/01/2011 13:06

"why so so many babies still get damaged at birth, causing major disabilities and nothing is don to stop this.
more often it is dues to negligence(very hard to prove) yet nothing is ever done"

What on earth do you mean?

MargaretGraceBondfield · 14/01/2011 13:07

To all posters who ask where do you draw the line with terminating a child with DS...I think the line is drawn already. WE can detect some illnesses and people make decision based upon that knowledge.

A child that goes on to develop SN, mental illness or has a terrible accident is beyond control.

I have no issues with termination generally, and so terminating a foetus with SN is not a difficult decision.

Original poster
Strictly · 14/01/2011 13:08

MIL once said to me she would like to have had a DS baby as they are 'more affectionate' and 'never leave home'.... I was Shock at that!

So eidsvold I can see that if you have a postive experience or idea you probably are much more likely to think you could cope with it.

OP posts:
wannaBe · 14/01/2011 13:08

I know someone who was offered a termination based on the results of her tripple test. And her result was 1 in 124. Shock Shock

the mw rang her at home to give her the result and then said that she should talk it over with her dh at the weekend and decide whether to continue with the pregnancy. At no point was she even offered an amnio or cvs - a high-risk result was considered to be all that was necessary to terminate the pregnancy.

Her dh put an enormous amount of pressure on her to terminate because he did not want a baby with downs.

She however did not want to terminate the pregnancy but the hospital put a lot of pressure on her to do so.

Eventually she was sent for a dating scan and it turned out her dates were out by two weeks which meant the tripple test result was flawed.

Her dd is now twelve and does not have downs. And her dh is now ex. Grin

But she could have terminated that pregnancy without even knowing one way or the other.

MargaretGraceBondfield · 14/01/2011 13:08

"But for many, they have already decided to terminate even before they've conceived, just look at the posts on here that claim "I could not continue a pregnancy with a disabled baby" (or words to that effect) and that argument comes up time and time and time again."

It is possible to know that you could not look after a disabled child before actually being pregnant.

Do you believe that having a child knowing you could not care for it is more sensible than making a decision to abort?

Erm it is much easier to say these black and white statements without the pregnancy as far as I can see.

2shoes · 14/01/2011 13:09

seeker, I mean nothing is done to stop it happening, like better training and better staffing

MargaretGraceBondfield · 14/01/2011 13:12

WannaBe......with all due respect your friend sounds very stupid.

BuzzLightBeer · 14/01/2011 13:12

erm, because we personally can't do much about that, 2shoes?

wannaBe · 14/01/2011 13:14

why? she didn't have a termination. She had a scan which proved her dates were wrong, but she had a lot of pressure put on her to terminate. She made a complaint to the hospital about how her results were handled and disciplinary proceedings followed.

In what way was she stupid?

Blu · 14/01/2011 13:15

"I think some people are self aware enough to know that they would not be a good parent to a disabled child. They may not be willing to give up that much of their own life to a child who may never be able to leave home."

It's about choice, not ability! I bet if you asked any parent of a disabled child would they have pro-actively chosen for their child to have that disability and would they have imagined they could cope, most would say no and no. Parents HAVE to be good parents to ther children in all sorts of situations they wouldn't have planned or actively chosen, and the vast majority of disabilities are not detectable befpore birth anyway.

Before birth you are still planning, dreaming - not dealing with the actual baby, however he or she turns out to be. So there is a choice if your baby is not as you planned - as Expat says. Once the baby is born, most parents respond to thier child as it comes, and get on with it - except in the case of much publicised Julia Hollander who had her dd brought up in care.

Actually, a high proportion of Looked After children have disabilities, so maybe many parents do not feel able to bring the up. I wonder how far that is related to the fact that it is so dificult to work if you have a severely disabled child, etc?

imgonnaliveforever · 14/01/2011 13:15

eidsvold - congratulations on having what sounds like 3 wonderful children, and I'm sorry you received such poor counselling.

I also was warned of "possible genetic complications" with my second child (who was born "normal" in the end), but this information was volunteered to me uninvited at my second scan after I had chosen to opt out of all the screening.

I agree with you that once any chance of foetal abnormality is detected the counsellors often try to rally you towards further testing and abortion (we were offered further scans and amnio which we refused, and I was really upset cos we had decided we definitely would not abort a downs baby but would rather not know before it was born)

My point earlier is that people should be counselled more on whether to have screening, e.g. why do you want screening? Would you abort a baby with downs? with spina bifida? why/why not? have you thought about what other conditions you might abort and which you would keep the baby. Are you aware of the risks of screening compared with the risk of foetal abnormality? Many people might then opt not to have the screening anyway, rather than just being swept along and then talked into an abortion.

Blu · 14/01/2011 13:18

Why does Wannabe's friend sound stupid? She was pressurised to terminate on a 1:124 chance (i.e less than 1%) of the baby having DS, and she refused!

tigitigi · 14/01/2011 13:20

I am very shocked and upset by this. We never had any tests other than the nucal at the scan, and I would have declined them if offered. I know a woman who was told she had to have the tests and was left with the impression that if they came back + she would have to abort, she was so upset until the results came back - as she was convinced they could make her kill her baby.

eidsvold · 14/01/2011 13:22

my dd1 at 1yo she is now a tall very skinny long haired 8 1/2 girl.

MargaretGraceBondfield · 14/01/2011 13:25

eid.....Your dd is gorgeous, without doubt.

LittleBeads · 14/01/2011 13:25

I wish I could remember what my friend said now.... she has a child (around 6yrs) with Spina Bifida. And after her birth the hospital told her it was the first baby with SB they'd delivered for 8 years (I'm sure it was 8) because mostly the pregnancies get terminated now.

goingdownhill · 14/01/2011 13:26

This thread has made me shake with anger. My precious and very much wanted DD was born sleeping a week ago today. We terminated her at 26 weeks and believe me the notion that anyone could think it was because she was not "perfect" makes me sick. She had complete agenesis of the corpus callosum, three large unexplained cysts where it should of been, on top of that she had lissencephaly a condition that meant she would never have functioned above the sucking grasping function of a new born. Her brain was basically completely absent in large areas. The hell we are living through at the moment is more painful and a horror that you can not imagine unless you have been through it.

I did what I did through love for my daughter. As a mother I wanted her here at any cost. I love her more than anything and perfection is the last thing I care about. DS1 has ASD so I am very used to parenting a not "perfect" child. However when her life was described to me in real terms, being trapped in a body she had no control over with no ability to communicate to anyone, suffering seizures and then a very early death. I knew I was being selfish to continue as I would never ever subject someone I love to a life that sounded like torture.

I am experiencing a grief so deep for my beautiful girl and I am truly sickened to think that people out there will think we have done this because she didn't fit in with our ideal.

I hope none of you ever have to realise the anguish of making that decision. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

Obviously I will not ask for your sympathy.

2shoes · 14/01/2011 13:26

"Actually, a high proportion of Looked After children have disabilities, so maybe many parents do not feel able to bring the up. I wonder how far that is related to the fact that it is so dificult to work if you have a severely disabled child, etc?"

blu just had to point out that it isn't a good idea to take the number of disabled children classed as "looked after children" and think that means their parents don't actually look after them.
my dd is classed as a looked after child, yet she lives at home and we look after her, it is purely because she has just over the respite nights, and that makes her classed as "looked after"
yet she lives here , I am her mum and carer.....

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 14/01/2011 13:30

goingdownhill - I am so sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine what you are going through. :(

seeker · 14/01/2011 13:31

"I know a woman who was told she had to have the tests and was left with the impression that if they came back + she would have to abort, she was so upset until the results came back - as she was convinced they could make her kill her baby."

I don't actually believe this - how can ayone who can read, or talk or look at the internet think this? All this "pressure to terminate" is propaganda - I have never met a real person to whom this has happened.

carminaburana · 14/01/2011 13:34

goingdownhill - I am so very sorry for the loss of your daughter xx

MargaretGraceBondfield · 14/01/2011 13:36

goingdownhill....Sorry for your loss. Do you have the right support around you? There's support on MN for mothers that have had to terminate.

MargaretGraceBondfield · 14/01/2011 13:39

I think some siblings can suffer greatly from a sibling with severe SN, they can feel neglected. I know this happens a lot when a sibling is very ill, like cancer.

I also appreciate the fact that having a member of the family with SN can make for truly wonderful and considerate children too.

goingdownhill · 14/01/2011 13:41

Thank you so much for your kind words. We are very well supported by family and friends. If I am honest the only thing I want now is my beautiful Alexandra back.

I should never of clicked onto this thread. I am sitting here with my heart aching longing to be able to hold my baby as I was this time last week.

The notion that some people obviously feel we deserve this makes me feel so angry.

carminaburana · 14/01/2011 13:47

goingdownhill - some of the comments on this thread have been beyond insensitive - but as I said earlier, thankfully those thoughts are not held by the vast majority of people.

I can't imagine the pain you're going through right now - sending you love & strenght.