to report someone fiddling the admissions system

[notwithme]

A friend of mine sold their house and rented a house in our street.

They have sent in their admissions form, the deadline was last week.

They are moving out of their rental this week, into a much cheaper rental on the other side of town.

She says she is having her post redirected so she doesn't miss the schools offer.

It's an oversubscribed school and even some children who attend the pre-school don't get in if they are out of catchment.

I'm not normally the whistle blowing type but this has really annoyed me.

Wilhemena - in those circumstances you would just move schools.

If an arbitrary system is in place, then follow it or cheat it and steal a place from a child who does. Parents dont get to decide what rules to obey and what to ignore.

The difference in performance between schools is appauling I agree, but there has to be some way to control intake. Also, schools arent going to improve if no-one wants to sent their kids there.

Catchment area worked before and it works still. Its the most common sense way to assign places.

If rich areas have the best schools then there needs to be an honest study into why that is.

TBH - I suspect the OPs friend will be found out at actual enrolment time.

UnquietDad - would they still allocate a place if they had the info to hand before they made the decision? I doubt it, and thats what OPs friend is hoping to dodge. She'll let them know once its all confirmed I'm sure...

ccpccp - Where the rules are entirely arbitrary there is no moral imperative to do more than follow the letter of them where necessary and ignore them the rest of the time.

A person who happens to fit the criteria, one who plays the system and one who commits fraud in order to get a place are all depriving exactly one other child a place at that school.

(per child obv)

All of them are acting in morally equivilant ways, though the third person runs the risk of punishment.

I would not report even though my own children have to travel for six miles to go to school despite the fact there is a school across the road. I do not doubt for a moment that there are children in the school across the road who have suspicious admin forms.

Coalition - surely that depends on how far away you've had to move from the original school? I would do everything I could to keep my child at the same school.

Wilhemena - well in that case you wouldn't move.

Coalition, I really don't understand your thinking. That fraud is not morally wrong if it gets you what you want, or that you disagree with the rules so they don't have to apply

A lottery system is a perverse alternative as it is equally unfair to everyone, including those who don't even have children. A system where a child living next door to a school could have to be driven 3 miles away in the interests of fairness seems barbaric and will do nothing for urban congestion, carbon etc.

I know it's slightly off topic but if I were queen I would ban faith schools. Even discounting those who didn't find god the minute they gave birth, I think very few parents feel strongly about their children receiving a religious education. Far more so, it's a way of ethnically cleansing schools and still bring able to read the guardian. No problems with English as second language, no immigrant turnover issues, no parents who couldn't care less

We moved out of London because of this. We werent prepared to be hypocrites, couldn't afford private and weren't happy with what was left.

YANBU. The pre-school are accepting applications in good faith and should be made aware if things are not what they seem. It could be that quite a few people are fiddling the system and it would help if they knew about this problem.

Fruitstick - where there is no moral basis to a system, there is no moral obligation to either obey the spirit of the rules, or the rules at all. There is just the risk of being caught and any subsequent consequences.

And moving out if London in order to get into a better school is playing the system just as much as the person in the op is.

So tax evasion, fine. Because you think the taxation system is immoral? I don't think so.

And no, not playing the system by movIng. We made a conscious choice for our family which involved lifestyle changes and sacrifices on our part. We moved so that we could be part of a community. I wanted them to walk to school, live next door to their friends etc.

We did not decide to take a short cut out of a sense of entitlement and pretend to be something or live somewhere that we didn't.

For example, say school entry was based on if you wore a blue jumper, but you don't like blue. Would it be morally wrong to (if there was no checking) claim you had one, or (if there was checking) buy/borrow one for the inspection?

What if you couldn't afford a blue jumper?

You had the wealth and resources to make that choice. Others don't. That is not 'fair'.

And what if everyone had a blue jumper. Surely they should only be allowed in to school if THEY TURN UP IN THE JUMPER!!

Tax evasion or avoidance? Paying tax is the other side of the bargain for the services we receive and for living in a country with a strong civil society. So tax evasion is wrong as it is failing to uphold your part of the bargain. School admissions is an arbitrary rationing system.

But that's not the rule in the arbitrary system I suggested. That would be like saying you have to move school if you move out of catchment, which would be slightly fairer.

You seem to be picking and choosing the systems you want to follow, based on what suits you best TheCoalitionNeedsYou.

DrSpoc hit the nail on the head I think.

Scamming a place at a popular school means taking that place from another child who is more entitled to it. Its morally wrong, even if that child is some faceless 'posh' kid exploiting the sweat and tears of the 'honest' working child

Only do it if you are prepared to lose her friendship. Someone once reported a friend of mine for the same thing and she thought it was me (it wasn't it was a mutual "friend) and she accused me and never spoke to me again or gave me chance to defend myself. The mutual "friend" never admitted it and the son if the friend who fiddled the admissions has bullied my son for 3 yrs now. Many of the mums at school stopped speaking to me as they presumed it was me and never bothered to find out the facts.

Think hard about all the consequences for you and your family before you do anything.

Ccpccp - well obviously I don't agree. There is a fundamental difference between tax and school admissions. If you evade tax you are doing more harm than someone who does not. If you fiddle the admissions system you do exactly the same amount of harm as someone who doesn't. So the rules are entirely arbitrary, and someone who happens to fulfill the criteria is only more entitled within that arbitrary system, not in any moral sense.

If she hasn't moved yet, then there is nothing you can do.

I'd she moves and the application process requires notification of change of address and you think she has not done this, then YANBU to report it.

The admissions system may be a crock of shite, but failing to comply with it isn't going to make it any better.

ccpccp - I'm not sure what you mean by "would they still allocate a place if they had the info to hand before they made the decision?" This would imply that "they" (by which I presume we mean the Local Authority, which makes these decisions, not the school) would or should or could have MORE information about this family than about any other applying to the school.

The Local Authority does not know children and families personally - they go on the information given. There is no space on the form to say "I am only in this address until I get the place and then I am off".

i wouldnt report her if it were me! if they are willing to go to those lengths they must be desparate for their child to get into the school. and who can blame them? if its a good school who doesnt want the best for their kids? i say keep ur nose out and let them get on with it. it doesnt affect u as long as ur kid gets a place? if someone in the catchment area doesnt then its upto them to right their own corner.

Look, this woman has not committed fraud! The admissions forms do not allow you to put a future address down on your application. They insist that you list where you are living NOW. This is what she has done. She is still living there. Where's the fraud?
It's nothing whatsoever to do with you, so get on with your life and let her get on with hers.

Clairey all very well for you to say. I did fight my corner and appealed and lost and failed to get DD into the sane school as DS1 and ended up with 3 kids at 3 different schools. I know for a fact there were many parents who has lied on the admissions form. What you are saying is stuff people like me and it's everyone for themselves. Nice

twinkletweeter - the system IS everyone for themselves.