To get a puppy.

[pongonperdy]

I work two and a half days a week which is what is putting me off the idea.

My daughter and husband are desperate for a puppy. I have grown up with dogs so i know how much is involved in having a puppy. The thing is my mum never worked so was always around to walk the dog etc. I know she thinks i should not have one as i work. However i doubt there will come a tme when i dont work so does that mean we should never have a pet. I think having a pet is a good thing for children and would hate them to miss out.

Am i being unreasonable is contemplating getting a puppy or do otjher people manage to combine pets and work.

I don't believe it is ok for dogs to be tied up all day outside for the following reasons:

1. Tying up a dog can increase frustrated and aggressive behavior.

1. Leaving a dog tied up for long periods of time causes stress and boredom.

1. Tied dogs can become tangled in their chain or rope and become injured.

1. A tied up dog is unprotected and can be attacked by other animals or people.

However the dogs we had as children were kept oudoors during the day but in a generously sized run with kennel and a grassed area. So when my parents were at work the dogs lived in there (we always had atleast 2 at once) and then as soon as we were home they'd come into the house. This meant they were safe, had space to roam around and the door had a padlock on so they could not be stolen - dog theft is on the increase with 74% more thefts reported in 2010 than in 2009. Unless they are breeds that can be sold easily (such as labradors etc) then a lot of these dogs are used as bait in illegal dog-fighting rings - a truly hideous thought.

my neigbour has 2 dogs which seem to spend most of the day left out in the garden. Bloody things bark and jump up at the fence as soon as i set foot in my own garden.
My older son now wont go in the garden at all as he is terified of the barking/fence jumping and i have to put up with a noicy chorus of woof woof everythime i hang my washing out.

Hoolybolly, the difference there is the plural, dogs. Not a single puppy or puppies that need training and human attention. It's simply not good enough to leave a dog outside because your circumstances do not fit dog ownership and you are trying damage limitation.

HollyBollyBooBoo add to your list a dog or dogs left outside will in all likelyhood bark at every noise through bordom and annoy the hell out of your neigbours

OP, you would be VU to have a puppy - they require a great deal of one to one supervision and attention. Getting a dog because your DD wants one is not sensible - this is a decision that should be made by the adults in the house, not the children. You are rightly ambivalent about it - without the whole hearted support of all the adults it is wrong to bring a pet of any sort (let alone a high maintenance puppy) into your home. The pup could easily be with you for the next 15 years - still there in your house after your children have left home.

If your DD loves dogs, there are many ways you could introduce her to them. Most dogs homes and rescue kennels are desperate for dog walkers and volunteers - why not encourage your DH and DD to go there together regularly to help walk the dogs - your DD would learn a great deal about dog care and responsibility and understand the importance of walking regularly even when it's cold, wet and muddy. This might also be a lovely bonding opportunity for her and your DH. If she's still enthusiastic after several months/a year of this, then maybe you should look again - on the other hand, the novelty might have worn off. There are also junior memberships of various dog related charities that provide lots of information - perhaps that could be an idea? RSPCA and Dogs Trust both do kid's packs/activities/membership. Why not sponsor a dog in rescue? Most rescue charities have ways of doing this and your DD might get a lot of pleasure from getting regular updates from "her" dog, including pictures, newsletters etc.

As for electric fences, words fail me. This is never appropriate. You need to get your fences FIXED. Unless you have the world's first ninja sheepdog, a dog cannot escape from a properly fenced garden.

Keeping a dog tied up is dreadful - shame on you. The dog belongs inside the house, where you can give it attention, and if you are out regularly, then put your hand in your back pocket and get a bloody dog walker in. Unless you live in the Outer Hebrides every area now has these - CRB checked and insured and ready to exercise your pet. If you are not willing to do this and spend some time training it, then for God's sake rehome it. I can't believe someone would keep a dog outside in the weather we've been having recently. If you lived near me, I would have reported you to the RSPCA and the local dog warden and would not rest until the situation was resolved. As others have said, it's also dreadfully unfair on your neighbours.

Just to be clear. It is not just dd that wants a dog. I would also love one. I have always grown up with dogs and dont feel the family is complete without one. We would get a rescue dog but the ones here dont rehome to families with small children.

I am getting the impressuon from the posts that those of you who have dogs dont work at all. Surely these days most people work so i dont understand how there can be so many dogs around.

Dont cats need company in the day too?

"Bit harsh lotster your flaming regarding wanting to walk my dog on the beach. Didnt realise it was a crime wantng to enjoy the countryside with ones dog.

I will resign myself to a pet rock i think.

Maybe when i retire i can sit in all day with a dog and be too old to actually take it out or enjoy the children and it growing up together."

I'm not usually harsh (in fact I almost always take a supportive role on here) but your posts are very self-pitying! You mention nothing of my comment about the dog's hours alone waiting for you, just how unfair it is for poor old you who'll have to make do with a rock. you don't seem to have any empathy with the dog at all.
You ask if you're BU and when told yes, a cat would be more suitable, you throw your toys out of the pram.

I get cross when people think it's their right to have a dog who sits around waiting for them. The reality can be very different - dogs become "teenagers" for a long time after they are little pups, they can whine and howl causing you problems with neighbours, tear up and chew your possessions, skirting boards, floor etc if they feel worried and neglected.
It's a big responsibility, they are not toys. Sorry I'd this sounds patronising but and don't sound very grown up about it to be fair.

And in answer to the earlier question, yes, there is someone at home here mist of the time. My husband works from home a lot, I'm in and out all day. We are lucky in this and it's why we felt we could offer a dog a home.

well people work and have children and I'm assuming they don't leave them at home alone all day?

you can't expect an untrained unsocialised unhousetrained pack animal to be ok left in your house alone

there's a massive difference between having a puppy and having a dog, having a puppy is like having another child - for the first few months especially

and no, cats don't need company through the day in the same way as a dog does at all, they are by nature more solitary animals

You don't say where you are, but I'm aware that some rescues DO rehome to households with small children. How old is your DD? Many rescues say no to rehoming where there are kids under 5, for instance. It's also worth remembering that rescues don't take this stance lightly and often do so because they recognise that combining very small children and dogs is not for the faint hearted and requires a great deal of commitment. It's not impossible and I know people who have successfully done it, but having slightly older children will make it much easier.

I work, but work from home. We did have a period where I was working full time outside the home - DH is a management consultant so works from home some of the time but also spends time with clients. On days when we were both out, paid dog walker came in. Rarely more than two or three times a week though. Some time after, we decided that it would be a better fit for our lifestyle if I stopped work full time (health issues as well) and now I work happily part time from home. We have also increased our dog numbers to three.

Others have already indicated that they work part time, or do split shifts. It's also worth remembering that many families/households have a surprising variety of work patterns. These days, working from home is increasingly common - several of our neighbours do, one is in banking IT and the lady next door does something with telecoms from home. Add in various shifts, differing start times and it's possible to do it. For instance one friend works in a pharmacy 2.5 days a week (including Saturday) but her DH is a postman so he starts mega early and finishes early so dog is not left for very long. Teenagers also in the house.

Can't comment on cats

Going back to your original question, it's doable if you get an adult dog, but simply not fair on a puppy.

If you wanted to PM me with your approx location, I'd be happy to look up dog rescues in your area and see if any did accept family applicants. I know DT and RSPCA generally don't but there are many other charities out there. Val will also have a very good picture of dog charities too.

Not meaning to be self pitying and i certainly dont think it is anyones right to own a dog. Equally, i dont think it is anyones right to have a child. However people work and have to put their children in day care. Surely this is just as bad. Perhaps people who work should
Not have children either.

We have an 18 month old border collie. We aew lucky in that i can't work due to illness so i am home during the day with him. He is the laziest collie you have ever met at home when it is just me and him he will sleep all day till dp and the dcs get in then all hell breaks loose lol.

He is taken out for walks daily we have the plains right behind our house. If we do have to go out for anything over a couple of hours we leave our backdoor open and he has the run of the house and garden. We live in a village with only 4 houses in our block, all 4 houses have dogs so we keep an eye out for each others.

Our collie is about to be used as a stud and we will be having one of the pups from the mating, there is no way would i consider getting a pup any sooner our dog will be about 2 at the time. I have 2 dcs 5/6 and they love the dog to bits.

If however me and dp was at work all day i either wouldnt hve considered having a dog or i would quite happily pay for a dog walker to come in and take him out daily for me. Its all part of being a responsible pet owner.

We got a puppy from rescue - wanted 2, but were soon put straight on that!

She was bloody hard work - I had taken a week off work to settle her in, and spent most of that time looking after a very poorly mutt - just the shock at being rehomed did terrible things to her and we almost lost her more than once

I am in the fantastic position of being able to take my dog to work with me - if I wasnt we would NOT have got her. Even though DH is home most of the day. Toilet training was a 'mare and thank God I have understanding bosses (and a bloody good Vax). (She's here with me now munching on a Bonio as we speak)

We didnt leave her for more than an hour at a time until she was around 7 months old. For the first few months she was NEVER alone. Even weekend shopping trips had to be me or DH, never both. We extended that over time and will now leave her for 4 hrs max BUT she gets 3 walks a day and we make sure she has had a good one (to tire her out) if we are going away.

She is now a year old and is the best mutt in the world but I wouldnt go through it again with another pup - she took it out of me. We are getting another, but it wont be a pup, even in our position.

OP if you do get a dog, please go to rescue and please dont get a pup. Look for a slightly older dog (1 Year or more) and definately get a dog walker/sitter for the 'full' days.

Be prepared for it to be hard work - but it really is worth it in the end.

(shameless plug for Many Tears HERE )

In answer to your Q there probably are a lot of people who do go out to work and leave their dogs for long periods of time but it's not good for the dogs. Most I know do at least return briefly during the day. Friends are experienced dog owners with a new puppy & they do leave it for longer than they should, although she returns at lunch-time/arranges MIL to visit and is home by 2.30 & her partner is home fri-sun. It stays inside though where it is warm. My father's dogs lived outside most of the year but that was because they were working dogs, and people were around and about all day. Because it was a farm some fences were electrified but using a collar to give shocks sounds cruel.

OPYou cannot compare people who work and leave their children in childcare to people who work and leave their dogs home on theur own all day. For a start, doga aren;t children and secondly, someone is caring for the DC. If someone worked, got a puppy and paid someone to provide full time care for that puppy, that would be fine.

What is wrong with getting a suitable older dog? You'll miss out most of the hardest work and are unlikely to develop problems because you have left a puppy alone. You would still need someone to walk/see to the dog at lunchtimes on the days you are out of the house all day though.

No good breeder is going to let you buy a puppy whilst you work two full days a week. So where do you get your puppy from? Rescue is unlikely to home apuppy to you for the same reasons a good breeder won't and do you really want to support puppy farmers and BYB's?

I would get a dog if you can work around the 2 days away from home - perhaps getting a neighbour or dogwalker to let it out for you. Also agree with prev post about getting it during annual leave fore ease of house training etc. I got a labrador puppy last Oct and it has been so lovely having her around. My DS adores her, she was technically his birthday pressie - she actually sleeps with him! One of the pups from the same litter went to another friend who works full time (luckily army so can take dog in most days and his GF works from home so they share responsibilities) - but he paid the breeder his keep the pup for a further 6 weeks to get it well into house training etc. I personally would go for that option rather than a rescue dog. We had a rescue dog earlier last year and she was such a disaster that she had to go back - it can be very rewarding if you get the right dog, but with small children you really cannot risk a disaster... Gook luck!

Bearing in mind that most working dogs never enter a house - if you have the space, then a kennel and a run would be a perfectly acceptable option providing the dog was well exercised (we take ours for an hour a day - with three 2-3 hour walks a week - weather permitting!). If you can get back at lunch time to give it attention then that would be preferable.

Midori, I guess a lot of people get their dogs locally, from friends of friends or they go to the small ads. A independent rescue where the dogs have been fostered with a family for a while, so you know their character and habits, could be a good choice for the OP.

My father found one of his favourite dogs after it was handed into the vet and fostered for a bit (it started herding the children, turned into an excellent farm dog)

Kangaroo, when people go to the small ads or the "friends of friends" then tney are almost certainly supporting puppy farmers and BYBs, with poor conditions for bitches and pups, usually little or no health checks, and little back up or support if things go wrong, or the dog needs to be rehomed.

Good breeders do NOT need to advertise on internet sites - they usually have waiting lists for their pups, and will insist on asking many questions, and as Midori says, are unlikely to home a puppy where the owner is out for 2.5 days a week.

Most rescues will do a thorough home check, and match the dog to the home, and will usually provide life long back up if anything goes wrong, as well as behavioural advice, support and info on things like breed specific health care, advice on finding a dog walker/kennel for holidays etc. Majority of rescues would not rehome a dog though if it was going to be kept outside.

I'm aware it's not a good thing to use the small ads but that's how people get away with having a puppy - no home check - but that's what was being asked further down the thread, assuming not everyone goes to a rescue or uses a puppy farm. Small ads can also be a scam, money up front/travel costs etc. Friends of friends route is common and quite often ppl will let the bitch have a litter of puppies and make money off that.

Would still go the independent rescue that fosters dogs with families, personally.

My suggestion to the OP is consider waiting till the kids are over 5 - you will be (hopefully) less stressed and all be able to enjoy your dog more.

My other suggestion is to have a 'surrogate dog' for a few weeks. a soft toy (not as much fun i know) that you have to let out at 6am every morning, that you have to take for a walk every day, including the 10pm walk before bed. that you can't leave in the car, or in the house for very long, that you need to find someone to look after if you go away for a night (and they will have to walk it etc). I know this sounds extreme but i have seen 2 people have dogs and then find they were too much work, and return them to the rescue centre. Very sad, and in my view possibly preventable by a bit of thought and experiment.
Our greyhound was a lot more work than we thought, and he was low maintainence. We are not getting another dog till the kids are a bit older.(he died of natural causes, we were not going to send him back cos he required work, unlike some of my friends i was disappointed to note)

i work so we built him a run with a high fence and a shed in the garden. In winter he went to stay with my mom - we had a 'time-share dog!)

I don't think you can compare putting children in childcare with leaving a puppy alone while you go to work - the equivalent would be leaving your toddler in the house all day alone (or tied up in the garden with an electric shock collar so they can't make a mess of your house!). A better analogy with childcare would be putting the pup in doggy/puppy daycare - would that be an option for the days you're at work?

DP and I both work, but we manage with a combination of each of us working from home part of the time, and a dog walker who comes when needed so the dog never gets left for more than about 3 hours at a time. And this is an older dog who is content to be left for a while (once he got over the initial rehoming stress), would be more difficult with a tiny puppy. I think you might well be able to find a rescue dog suitable for your family, for example ours had lived with a 2 year old in his previous home, and the rescue were happy for him to go to a home with young children. A calm, well-trained adult dog is often better than an excitable puppy who hasn't learned yet that you mustn't nip the toddler or jump on the baby!

"Not meaning to be self pitying and i certainly dont think it is anyones right to own a dog. Equally, i dont think it is anyones right to have a child. However people work and have to put their children in day care. Surely this is just as bad. Perhaps people who work should not have children either."

Still no empathy for the dog, still about you and how in the right you are, I give up. No idea why you posed the question "AIBU?" - as is so often the case on this type of thread you won't hear of it that you are.

Good luck with your dog. Please choose the breed/crossbreed very wisely as different breeds will cope and some will not, not just by what looks cute. As others have suggested a dogwalker will be essential.

p.s. a child in childcare is not ALONE. Most of the time they also understand that you will come back.

KangarooCaught - I wish I could get my dog to "herd" my children. It would make life a lot easier!

idea has merits

Kangaroocaught, you're right about where most people get their dogs, unfortunately most don't know any better, which is really sad. The majority fo the dog owning public have no idea of the situation with dogs bein gput to sleep in this country, so see nothing wrong with their friend or friend of friend breeding a litter and possibly also have no idea bout health testing. \They think KC registration is some sot of mark fo quality when in fact over 90% of KC registrations are from 'volume breeders' which in effect are puppy farmers. They also think rescues don't have puppies and that older rescue dogs are a liability to have in thier homes.

More education is needed, If only the BBC would do a programme about that instead of programmes which actually end up promoting puppy farmers.