To think that too many people rely on Tax Credits?

[workhardplayhard]

Reading many of the threads on Mumsnet it seems that a large proportion of contributors rely on Tax Credits to top up their incomes.

I don't know anyone who claims Tax Credits IRL but if I did I don't think it would change my opinion - I think people should be fully responsible for providing for their own offspring without any benefits.

I have stated on a previous thread that I DO believe that people should get some assistance if their circumstances change ( Redundancy/Ill Health) but only for a set period.

I don't think the government should pay for people to have multiple children that they can ill afford to provide for.

I would be interested to hear other views.

It's a disgrace the term 'working poor' even exists.

The term "working poor" exists because many of the people in power, with the ability to change and influence things, are so out of touch. It's ignorance, perhaps with the odd dab or two of apathy.

We've seen from the figures given above that even someone on wages above the minimum wage literally cannot afford to pay the non-avoidable non-luxury non-negotiable bills that involve running a family home.

Yet I was so astounded by the following post on Mumsnet that I saved it to constantly remind myself of how out of touch some people can be. Check it out:

*123honey Fri 19-Nov-10 12:03:33
DH earned £180k last year, I earned £20k (part time). House is worth £1.2m, just paid mortgage off.

So on the face of it, we should be loaded, however, the tax man takes £80k per annum, the mortgage payments until recently were £60k per annum, so we were then on probably the same as Mr and Mrs Jo Bloggs who have normal 9 to 5 jobs but get topped up with tax credits etc.*

I mean, fuck me. If this person thinks that the guy serving them in a garage, or the woman who washes her hair at the salon, has 40 thousand pounds to spend after the mortgage is paid and the tax man has taken his cut.... wtf is wrong with this country, that the divide is so great that someone would post this utter tripe in public?

Sorry - that would be 60k per year that the poster reckons the average duel-working family has to live on beyond mortgage and tax payments.

Most people won't earn that pre-tax in a couple of years!

Blimey. That reminds me of one years ago when the OP earned over 100K and complained about having little left after paying for essentials such as tithing and fresh flowers.

Riven - I'd spend 8k on a holiday if I had it

(actually our trip to Zim 5yrs ago cost about £6k in total.......though half of that was a gift from my parents and the other half a loan........of which I don't think they've had anything back yet ).

OMG - I can't believe someone actually posted that - just had to click on the link to check you weren't joking

I remember the thread frgr was talking about. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.We have people like that in government making the policies that could improve our lives or totally screw us over.

Agree with all the very articulate comments on here about the cost of living not keeping up with incomes. We live a frugal lifestyle in a cheap area (no holidays abroad, cook from scratch, etc). I am at home with the children as childcare's too expensive for me to go to work, even PT. We'd lose money. And we do need WTC. It doesn't get spent on fags/paying back credit cards (we don't have any debts), etc. It goes on food/shoes for the kids/etc.

By the time our children are paying tax there will be a huge proportion of the population needing home carers or nursing homes, and that will be where the majority of their tax will go. Will we all then switch to complaining about the old people and how they're sponging off the state? Don't think so.

I'm at home bringing up future tax payers, I think it's a good investment for the state.

Wow frgr that post is unbelievable!

Although my SIL is similar, she is a SAHM but her DP earns £150k+. She moans because we (both DH and I work, him FT and me PT, our household income is less than £25k) get tax credits and she doesn't. It beggars belief really.

am at that post frgr.

Oh believe me, it is tempting!

Although I think she gets her attitude from her parents, who think that it is unfair that my mum (a widow) gets £250 winter fuel payment all to herself, whereas they only have £125 each. I wasn't aware that they had seperate houses which they needed to heat? Besides, they use theirs as spending money on their January cruise, which wasn't quite what the government had in mind when it introduced the payments to keep pensioners warm in the winter!

just

i need more coffee before i can prosses the ignorance in that post frgr...

someone pass a cup,

swapseys?

I can't understand the mentality of people who can afford to go on cruises but get bitter about what benefits others get.I have a friend who has a lovely house mostly paid for by her parents, her parents also take her and her kids on a foreign holiday every year.Yet she was moaning that people in council houses get their repairs done where she has to pay.I would have sympathy if she were struggling.But she has wealthy parents who have bought her a lovely house in a lovely area near to good schools plus a foreign holiday every year.Does not realise how lucky she is.

I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. The average household income in this country is £26k. Logically, benefits shouldn't be available to people on an average income; only on a low income.

However, because benefits are available to people on an average and above average income, people can afford to pay more for things such as rent and mortgage. This in turn encourages landlords and sellers to ask for higher rent, etc. So people on an average income and higher than average income need benefits to pay for these higher costs.

Not the individuals fault, but it isn't a logical way for things to run either.

Although I do know people who don't work because of tax credits. My brother works part time and his wife doesn't do paid work at all - oldest child is 9. They have said to me that there is no point them working more hours as they would not be financially any better off. And although I know this is a logical decision for them, it doesn't seem very fair.

... and yet David Cameron has ring-fenced their fuel money that they spend on a cruise, whilst taking away my child benefit. Nice one.

I don't begrudge people tax credits, if I was entitled to them I would take the money! I think the real heros are the minimum wage earners who go out to work to provide for their families, if that means they need help then so be it.

P.S. Just because people don't earn much doesn't mean they don't deserve to have children.

workhardplayhard you are a Dick.

Where is the OP? Were the views on this thread interesting? Has it changed your views?

yes, it is shocking that so many people rely on tax credits in this country to pay basic bills - food, accommodation and fuel. salaries should be higher.

In the space of 6months My husband walked out and I was laid off. When I had dd I was earning 24K so managed ok. I took the only job I could get which was part time, trying to do the right thing. I am still job hunting.

Rent for a 2 bed flat in a crappy street plus council tax leave me £22 a month to pay for gas, electricity and food. I am sure someone will come along soon and tell me I am stupid for not managing on that. If my mum hadn't taken me in I would be in big trouble. I don't get any benefit apart from child benefit.

I am sick and tired of being called irresponsible for constantly trying to do the right thing and running into brick walls.

gordylovessheep In response to your first post, I'd say I'd like to see a system where a man doesn't get to walk away from his family leaving the government to take up the financial slack. If you were not eligible for tax credits as a couple I'm not sure why it should be necessary for you to be eligible for them now. Paying for your three children is still your and your ExH's responsibility - the fact that you no longer live together should be neither here nor there. That is not a personal dig - but a general one.

If an individual's standard of living needs to go down when they divorce and the household needs to be split, then so be it. It really shouldn't be the tax-payer's job to make sure that people can families and marriages, and walk away fairly unscathed from financial responsibility to their children and their mortgage, without any great personal sacrifice, only to start all over again with someone else a year later.

sorry, meant to say 'people can leave families and marriages.

xstich I am concerned you have so little for food and bills. You should be getting tax credits and housing benefit. I think there is a website called entitled to.com or go to the citizens advice bureau for some benefit advice. Or ring the tax credits helpline.Your local council will be responsible for housing and council tax benefit, ring them too.